[Baron]

I teach and have decided to strike because, as far as I can tell, I'm going to loose out. Don't ask me to justify that - I read up and still don't really have a clue as to what's going on. Who's for/against?

[Jaspersharpe]

I teach and have decided to strike because, as far as I can tell, I'm going to loose out. Don't ask me to justify that - I read up and still don't really have a clue as to what's going on. Who's for/against?

Not English.... right? 

[granticus]

I teach and have decided to strike because, as far as I can tell, I'm going to loose out. Don't ask me to justify that - I read up and still don't really have a clue as to what's going on. Who's for/against?

Perhaps if you read down (ie. from top to bottom) things would make more sense.   

Surely once your union has taken a ballot decision to strike you shouldn't have to make a decision, you support the majority right?

My union hasn't been balloted so won't be on strike on this occasion but will vote for action when we are, fully support those that are taking action on the 30th.  It appears our cabinet made up of millionaires would like you to work longer and pay more for less of a pension whilst their wealth swells.. 

[Baron]

Been a log week Jasper.

Granticus, done the math and know how much the NUT say it's going to cost me, and supporting the majority is one thing, but I'd rather know enough to make my own mind up. There are staff at our place (NUT members) who consider all this a bit of a joke and aren't striking. Basically, I don't want to look like a right plank.

TV crew: Baron, why are you striking today?
Baron: Err...

[mrjonathanr]

TV crew: Baron, why are you striking today?
Baron: Because the government are cutting my pension whilst increasing my contributions and working life not to administer an unwieldy fund but divert my contribution to patching the enormous treasury created by all parties fiscal policy and the particular costs of supporting reckless banking practices without making any meaningful attempt to recover the bastronomical revenues lost through tax avoidance and evasion which really would help us manage our budget.

[andyd]

We're being asked to pay more and get less.  It seems our healthy pot of pension money is being redistributed around the public sector.

I don't believe we get the best press with other workers (due to the 13 weeks of holiday) so I feel the strike is a little too early; it's probably playing into the government's hands somewhat. That said, I am going to strike as it's what my union thinks is best. A half hearted strike seems pointless.  It's got to be all or nothing.

[tomtom]

I think if I was in the 'public sector' pension scheme then I'd be striking...

To explain.. as a University staff member we have the USS (university superanuation scheme) which is a 5* final salary scheme.. we've just had to increase our contributions from 6.8 to 7.5% and retirement age is up to 65.. theres a few other concessions that have happened. This change is the result of a negotiation panel - two union, two university reps and a chair. It was split, so the chair cast the final vote.. Our union is presently balotting to strike, but I wont vote yes, as I think even with these changes we've a pretty good deal (as most people I work with think too..). AND (here is the rub for me) USS is a separate/independent organisation/body with its own pot of money.. so if there isnt enough there we're all going to have to put more in etc... the ££ dont come from nowhere!

The public sector strikes/pension issue is different, as the Govt does not have the 'pot' ringfenced - it is something they can (and will) use to balance other government budgets in some way.. (Anyone remember what Rober Maxwell did??).. so I wouldnt trust them as far as I could get off the ground on Brad Pit sit start not to ferk it up on some way or other.. so I'm right behind the public sector strikers on this one.. When times are good, you get paid less in the public sector, but take comfort in (ahem) relative job security and a good pension - and private sector employees may laugh at your low wages.... Flip side is when times are bad, private sector looks enviously at job security and good pension...

Thats my tuppence... I dont think you should get something for nothing, but public sector pensions should be in some sort of ringfenced pot that is independently managed rather than part of some govt black hole/spending reserve. I may have got this wrong in some way - if so sorry - but thats what I understand/think. The Govt has effectively pulled the rug out from under any negotations by saying this is what is going to happen so......

[LucyB]

Not me.

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10928.msg320615.html#new

[Baron]

Told a TA I were striking today. She put her fingers in her ears and started ranting about 'why should we pay for your pension? My husband works 16 hours for 3p etc.....

Considered mentioning that the uniformed services (police, fire brigade, army etc), unlike teachers, make no contributions to their pension fund at all. But then I would've sounded like her.

[dave]

If your union is striking, then you're striking, end of*. Its a point of principle. I don't know why people bother joining unions if they're not willing to strike. Its not like you're a french lorrydrive and stike every other week afterall.

(*unless you're in the final 3 years of working before retirement or whatever and striking can fuck up your pension)

[richie0210]

Considered mentioning that the uniformed services (police, fire brigade, army etc), unlike teachers, make no contributions to their pension fund at all.
[/quote]

Is this true?

[Baron]

I've no idea. That's why I'm trying to avoid doing a Hansel brother:

[philo]

I teach, I'm for the cuts, I'm for the change to the system that does not work and already has bankrupted our country. 
Before reading on, I can't see this country ever being fixed - economically or philosophically.  With the foreign policy, welfare state (including NHS) and taxation - we dig deeper into a downward spiral of debt.  If we cut the spending across the board and had smaller government, then maybe the tax on our labor could be 0%.  I need to go back to the "were all ferked" thread.

My humble opinion:
I think the head teacher final salary pension system is disgusting.
Although we are overworked, underpaid (unless your in SLT  etc etc,) its not that bad at all really.
As long as you don't live beyond your means and have a comfortable life, who gives a shit. 

On a personal note, though I see the benefits of a pension scheme, I do think by the time I retire it will have evaporated with the rest of the economy - It's not even worth paying into one if you under the age of 40

[slackline]

Regardless of anything, facts are very simple, people are living longer and the current system can't support that.

Either those currently mid-way through their lives pay for that or their kids do.

Oh, and women tend to have a greater life expectancy than men in most western societies (current estimates being roughly 4-5 years more for the UK), and shouldn't therefore get any earlier retirement.  Equality should mean exactly that.

[philo]

on that note, they should also play 5 sets of tennis too. 

[GraemeA]

already has bankrupted our country. 

WTF. I thought teachers were supposed to have a modicum of intelligence. If that is what you really believe then you need to change careers.

[mrjonathanr]

Regardless of anything, facts are very simple,

But there are rather a lot of them to choose from. And that isn't simple at all.

[andy_e]

Does borrowing loads of money not bankrupt you any more? Sweet.

[AndiT]

I'm not striking. I've got OFSTED in. Oh joy!

I pay about £140 a month into my pension, I also doubt I'll ever see it at the other end, but then I look at my Dad, who's a retired sewage worker and think 'well, perhaps it's paying for him' and I don't feel so bad....I then look at the greasy woman down the street who's never had a job in her life and has just bought another 3 year old car and start feeling bad again.

[slackline]

But there are rather a lot of them to choose from. And that isn't simple at all.

Oh yes, there's million, nay billions and billions of facts, but not all of them are relevant.

Life expectancy is though and there's no doubting that it has increased over the last 50 years.

Given this fact I fail to see how a system set up based on people living on average to around 70 can magically cope when they then tend to live for another 10 years more than anticipated.

I'm not saying there aren't alternative solutions to whats being proposed, but its pretty clear to me that the current system isn't sustainable.

[dave]

..I then look at the greasy woman down the street who's never had a job in her life and has just bought another 3 year old car and start feeling bad again.

Don't feel bad, these 3 year old cars are cool.

[Fultonius]

It's a tricky situation - like as been said, there used to be an understanding that public sector workers on average were lower paid than private sector but had the benefit of a hefty pension that was far in excess of any private sector pension.

I'm not convinced that's true anymore. Maybe this is just one example and doesn't represent the rest of the UK.

I graduated at the same time as one of my good mates. He did a Bachelor's in Town and Country Planning and I did Masters in Mechanical Engineering. For the first three to four years he was being paid a good £3-4K more than me and I work in offshore Oil & Gas!

My Pension is matched by my company up to 6% of gross salary.

His was something like he pays 3% they pay 17%  (can't remember the exact numbers).

Also, there's a well-known trend in planning that you get a promotion 2 years before you retire so you get your boosted final salary pension but aren't at the top too long to fuck it up. Maybe that's a different issue and going 

Now, I do think public sector workers should have a more guaranteed retirement than private sector, but a small increase in contirbution coupled with a small increase in retirement age (to come in line with the rest of us) is perfectly reasonable.

[galpinos]

Andi, there are far more people like your dad than there are the scrounging women on benefits, despite what the media tell us.

The system we have is unsustainable but the current proposed changes don’t seem to be the answer to me. If I was in the public sector, I’d feel as though I was getting stuffed.

The public sector can’t run on goodwill alone, some of the incentives that drew people in (and kept them there) need to remain, otherwise you’ll just get a poorer calibre of staff running an underachieving service.

[Jaspersharpe]

It's a tricky situation - like as been said, there used to be an understanding that public sector workers on average were lower paid than private sector but had the benefit of a hefty pension that was far in excess of any private sector pension.

I'm not convinced that's true anymore.

Bang on.

As someone who sees private sector wages in small to medium businesses of all types I can guarantee that the idea that public sector workers of a similar level (quals, experience etc) get paid less is utter bullshit.

Those days are LONG gone.

I can qualify this by being the son of two public sector workers (teacher, architect) and having known plenty of teachers etc over the years. Yes there are examples of good and bad pay in both sectors, of course, but across the board, for similar experience, effort and qualifications there's not a lot in it salary wise. Look at the whole package and with the holidays, pensions, sick pay, job security etc the public sector pisses it. By miles.

The simple fact is that public sector pensions are a fucking good screw in comparison to anything else and will continue to be after the "reforms". I'm all for the right to strike etc but I agree that the unions are totally jumping the gun here and aren't going to endear their members to the majority of the public by walking out so soon. As mentioned, there are going to be bigger battles ahead and alienating the public at this stage is fuckwittery of the highest order. How about when they decide to "do a Maxwell" as mentioned? Surely that would be the time for strikes.......

slackers is also right of course. Basic maths is going to tell you that if there are more of you, you live longer after you finish working and you want your pension to be linked to your salary etc then you're going to need a bigger pot to start with. So you need to put a bit more in yourself and maybe work til the majority will have to instead of expecting it to appear out of nowhere.  Fuck's sake.

 

[mrjonathanr]

Is that the issue? Life expectancy has gone up, so we need to manage contributions exclusively to bolster pensions?

I don't believe that's where the money is going.

Moreover when the 2006 review drew its conclusions, did they not know these facts? Is this new evidence, or just a new administration keen to raid the public purse?

The shame is, if HMRC just got in the revenue lost to tax avoidance and evasion we'd not be having this debate... but then the Tories wouldn't be having many donations either.

It's not the data dude, it's the dishonesty. And that's a fact.


And I won't be striking next week. But nor will I cover any striker's workload either.