[heelhookofglory]

Now that I have my very own lovely BM2K I'm putting a little plan together. I've read the training articles on here and Planet Fear but also want a bit of advice from you guys on here who have already gone through this initial stage.

Basically my plan at the moment is;

Period 1: 4–6wks (Beastmaker repeaters) 4F open / 2 mins rest / 3F open / 2 mins rest / 4F sloper / 10 mins rest. 2 or 3 sets of 7/3 x 6 reps
Period 2: 4–6wks (Beastmaker maximum hangs) F4 open / 2 mins rest / 3F open / 4F sloper / 10 mins rest. Max hangs of 3–8 seconds x 3 sets (added weight in rucksack if needed)
Period 3: 4–6wks (Awesome Walls Longton woody – movement, core etc) half hr to 45 mins of max intensity moves
Period 4: 1–2wks (very easy period, no intense finger work)

My questions are, should I be doing repeaters or encores (or both) during phase 1?

Is my plan for max hangs correct during phase 2?

Finally, are the durations (and order) of each phase about right to get the most benefit?

Main goal which I want to achieve by using the BM is maximum increase of finger strength. However I am aware that other benefits can be had through exercises which I'm not doing at the moment i.e. lock-off strength (encores?), power (campus board?) and am I right in thinking that static hangs work strength and not power?

If it makes any difference my max bouldering grade is a few Font 7As at the mo. Apologies for the newbie questions but I'm quite literally a newbie to BM training 

Cheers!

[shark]

Dan / Carlisle Slapper kindly offered some useful advice on GBIC recently

[heelhookofglory]

Cheers Si, I'd missed that post 

[Nibile]

I'm no expert, but here's my two pennies.
I think that you may want to cut down every period in smaller cycles, if you want to keep going for long. I find the best for me is 2 weeks load, 1 week active recovery.
also, be ready to change according to what your body tells you.
with the BM I found out I can push so hard that sometimes I need a lot of time to recover for another good session.

[heelhookofglory]

Cheers guys.

After a bit more reading it seems that encores are favoured to repeaters, as they also aid with arm / shoulder burl, so I might swop out those during phase 1...

[abarro81]

Are you only beastmakering in periods 1 and 2? (I'd presume not but since you mention board climbing in stage 3 it seems possible)? If so that sounds wack. Maybe train on a wall and throw some hangs in in the middle or at the end of the session.

If I read it right your max hangs session only involves 9 hangs? That would be totally wack. I just start a watch going and hang on each minute for 45min to 1 hour after warming up. (Though I've not done any of this for a year since I'm currently a euro climbing bum  ) Why is there a 10min rest in your max hang session?

Why only 30-45min board sessions?

[heelhookofglory]

Are you only beastmakering in periods 1 and 2? ... If so that sounds wack. Maybe train on a wall and throw some hangs in in the middle or at the end of the session.

Yes, Beastmaker sessions during phases 1 and 2. I'm also including 2-3 sessions out on real rock actually climbing (per week). I probably should have mentioned that 

If I read it right your max hangs session only involves 9 hangs? That would be totally wack.

That's right. I've only just started training on a fingerboard and am worried about over doing it but also that's why I posted the above -- to get an idea of whether this is enough or not enough to get good gains, safely.

I just start a watch going and hang on each minute for 45min to 1 hour after warming up. (Though I've not done any of this for a year since I'm currently a euro climbing bum  ) Why is there a 10min rest in your max hang session?

This is the set-up which most articles seem to promote, 2-3 sets with 2 or 3 mins rest between each exercise and 8 or 10 mins rest between each set. Again, open to ideas and critique on this.

Why only 30-45min board sessions?

I find that 30-45mins of absolute maximum intensity moves is plenty to get good gains without over doing it. This is also mixed in with other climbing. Again, open to suggestions as to whether this is enough / too much.

Good feedback, thanks 

[heelhookofglory]

I'm also planning, when I've gone through the first cycle of phases, to add extra grip types in. So instead of just 4F open, 3F open and slopers I'll add in front 2, middle 2 and back 2 grips as well -- then eventually after a few more cycles, some monos. Didn't want to start off with these as Dan and Ned seem to advice starting on the initial 3 on the articles I've read...

[Serpico]

If I read it right your max hangs session only involves 9 hangs? That would be totally wack. I just start a watch going and hang on each minute for 45min to 1 hour after warming up.

That's too long, if you were doing biceps curls you wouldn't spend an hour doing 45-60 sets of 8 (at approx 30s per set), you'd just do 3-6 sets at most. It's the same for the forearms - any more than a few minutes total hang time is just wasted effort and needs a longer recovery time for no extra useful stimulus.

[abarro81]

The max hangs are ~5 seconds, so not sure the comparison to 30s sets of 8 is really useful?
If I was doing bicep curls I wouldn't have a stack of different grips I wanted to work through too... I'm stronger at the end of that session that at the start, so figured it wouldn't be overdoing it. 9 hangs is like doing half a warm up for a session then stopping. I'm pretty sure I do more than that when re-warming up for a redpoint go after an couple of hours rest.
What would Ramon do? I bet he wouldn't do 9 hangs.

[Paul B]

45-60 reps isn't max hangs which ever way you spin it. What on earth do you hang for this many reps? I'm betting it isn't front-two one-arm crimped?

[heelhookofglory]

So... general thoughts are that 9 hangs isn't much, but the durations / rests are ok. As mentioned though, will be adding more grip types as I get used to training on the BM.

How many grip types do you tend to work during a typical session? [ 4F open, 3F open, slopers ] + half crimps, full crimps, front 2, middle 2, back 2 and monos? Not much more to add is there?

Any thoughts on my other questions? Ta!

[abarro81]

45-60 reps isn't max hangs which ever way you spin it.

Why not if the stuff I can hang at the end of the session is just as hard as at the start?

I used to work through: 4 fingers, front 3, back 3, front 2, mid 2, back 2 (on a variety of edges, pockets, slopers); plus some 1 handed stuff on 4/f3/b3.
I can't hang the good edge 1 handed, so hanging 2 finger crimps 1 handed might not go on my to do list for a long time.

[Paul B]

I think I don't understand.

[mr__j5]

I don't see how anybody could possibly do 45-60 max hangs, unless they are just holding on for 5 secs and letting go, instead of making sure you are weighted up so that you fail at about 5s.

[shark]

I don't see how anybody could possibly do 45-60 max hangs, unless they are just holding on for 5 secs and letting go, instead of making sure you are weighted up so that you fail at about 5s.

45-60 max hangs is for pussies. Nibile shows the way with six sets of 15 - do the math(s)

[craic-head]

Just watched the Ned Feehally vid.
The weighted pinch exercise looks like it'd really damage your lumbar spine over time.
Any lifting techniques I've ever been taught have always stressed never to lift heavy weights off the ground with straight legs stooped over like that...

[slackline]

You could bend your knees instead. 

[Fultonius]

True - not the best posture. I would've thought you'd be better to do two at a time to balance the spine and do it more like a deadlift.

On the other hand, the weight looked pretty light so it probably won't matter too much.

[craic-head]

The weight might be light but there's a large multiplication of forces through the lower spine by bending like that.
Lifting off a chair or something would be much better.

[heelhookofglory]

Steering slightly back on topic.

My current structure for max hangs is as follows (max hangs is current phase, aim is finger strength):

2 or 3 sets, each set consisting of;

• near straight arm on front 2
• half lock on front 2
• full lock on front 2

2 or 3 mins rest

• near straight arm on mid 2 (weighted)
• half lock on mid 2 (weighted)
• full lock on mid 2 (weighted)

2 or 3 mins rest

• near straight arm on back 2 (supported)
• half lock on back 2 (supported)
• full lock on back 2 (supported)

8 mins rest and then next set

Nibile's video, above, is very impressive but as I'm new to BM training I feel that would be far too much for me, not to mention that I'm far too weak to work all of those different holds / grip types yet. What I'm asking is, is the above the right structure or is it best to do as Nibile is doing in that video and being more constant, i.e. lose the 2 or 3 mins rests, or is that more for power endurance rather than strength?

[groovedog]

Steering slightly back on topic.

My current structure for max hangs is as follows (max hangs is current phase, aim is finger strength):

2 or 3 sets, each set consisting of;

• near straight arm on front 2
• half lock on front 2
• full lock on front 2

does 2 or 3 sets consist of one rep hang per set? What duration hang? 2 or 3 mins rest between inbetween each set or straight back on? I'm guessing not repeaters as this is more power endurance? Just a query really i'm Still trying to get my head round the best way to train on fingerboard etc.

[Steve R]

I can't hang the good edge 1 handed,

Wait a minute, when we're talking about 'the good edge' is it the central rung on the bottom row of a 2000 series? or the crimps to the sides?  if the former, you're going to have to bring out witnesses for your recent ascents, weakling

[abarro81]

Wait a minute, when we're talking about 'the good edge' is it the central rung on the bottom row of a 2000 series? or the crimps to the sides?  if the former, you're going to have to bring out witnesses for your recent ascents, weakling

Yup, the central rung. I am that weak. Home on Saturday though to sort that out and get strong! (Back up north mid-July, you around in Sheffield this summer?)
Never fear, I can provide full witnesses. Though some of them are Spanish so probably don't count.

[SA Chris]

As long as they didn't arrive at dawn on bicycles you are probably OK.