[Muenchener]

This isn't climbng related - although I suspect climbing may not be helping it - but there's such a wealth of knowledge and experience here, I thought I'd try asking anyway.

My quarter of a century in the software industry is starting to take its toll, in the form of discomfort in my right wrist related to using a mouse. The problem area is the centreline of the top of my forearm (as seen resting my palm on a table), for a couple of inches starting just above the wrist joint. Using a scroll wheel with my middle finger seems to be the worst thing to do.

Stretching provides short term relief but it certainly is't getting any better long term. Lately I've started oding reverse wrist curls to counteract any climbing-related imbalanaces that might be accumulatig; too early to say if that makes a difference. Anything else I should be doing? Change my mouse or learn more keyboard shortcuts perhaps?

[tomtom]

I had the same doing loads of clicky GIS things for my PhD. I just trained myself to use my LH. Took about a week. Now I use the two hands for the mouse depending on which side of the desk is free! RH wrist issues disappeared.
As an alternative to a mouse some people at work have these:



Called a joystick mouse or vertical mouse (google has aplenty) it still works like a mouse as in you move the base around rather than wanging a joystick, but you hold it like a joystick if you get what I mean...

[Muenchener]

Looks interesting, thanks.

I've tried learning to mouse left handed, but evidently not enough yet.

[iain]

tomtom's joystick type suggestion is a good one, it puts the wrist and hand into a more neutral position. I'd also second his suggestion about persevering with the left hand, I occasionally have to do the same.

I've done a lot of IT support in the past and the type of mice people go for varies from person to person.
Start with your posture at the computer. Read the link below and check that you're following their guidelines:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Repetitive-strain-injury/Pages/Prevention.aspx

Then look at different types of mice, there's two basic varieties.

The first is the joystick, vertical or grip mouse. They all turn your hand clockwise but otherwise behave as a normal mouse in that you move the whole mouse around to move the pointer. Some more examples are:
http://www.posturite.co.uk/PosturiteSite/pages/category/category.asp?ctgry=Mice&cookie_test=1
(I'm not suggesting you spend that much on a mouse, just showing some examples)

The other type is the trackball. Again these turn the wrist but instead of moving the whole mouse you use your fingers to move the trackball.
http://www.trackballmouse.org/
(Again just showing some examples, but don't go for one that can be used with both hands, they're not as good)

In my experience more people tended to go for the joystick style mouse, the trackball has a higher learning curve. but can be very good once you get used to it.

The only way to really know is to try different types for a decent time, and unless you've got a friendly IT department that can be tricky. Most big PC stores in the I've been in stock one or two though, maybe worth trying to at least give you a feel for them.

[slackline]

I was going to suggest a trackball like iain has suggested.

The other option is to learn to use the keyboard for navigation around the software and menus that you use (ideally using an ergonomic keyboard, I really rate the M$ Ergonomic 4000 keyboard and have used one for about six or seven years, they're great).

The one thing that keyboards aren't great for in this respect is browsing web-pages, too many links to tab between them most of the time.

[lagerstarfish]

Our office manager uses a grip mouse. I borrowed it and found it very comfortable and easy to use.
one of these http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=305

The other thing she's done is use a smaller keyboard - looks odd and took some getting used to, but typing for her now involves smaller finger movements and virtually no wrist movement. She says it's made a difference.

[remus]

just to throw another option out there, i use a graphics tablet and it's been brilliant at preventing wrist pain. Takes a bit of getting used to but very easy to use once you've gotten the hang of it. They're also very good for photoshop work, if you do anything like that.

If you end up going for one make sure you get a wacom. They're pretty pricey but are much better than the cheaper ones you get knocking around.

[tomtom]

just to throw another option out there, i use a graphics tablet and it's been brilliant at preventing wrist pain. Takes a bit of getting used to but very easy to use once you've gotten the hang of it. They're also very good for photoshop work, if you do anything like that.

Ah.. apple have quite a cool looking usb touchpad (IIRC) which uses capacative touch (like phone screen) and all the tap/drag combo's. Though to counter that, I've always found extensive touchpad use much much worse for my wrists than mouse work (that may be what I'm used to).

To add to what Lagers was saying about the smaller keyboard - I've been using laptops pretty much exclusively for writing/typing for the last 15 years (including thesis production) and I find their smaller more compact keboard much easier to type on for long periods of time (you also get a wrist rest built in...)

[csurfleet]

Another vote here for both learning to use your left hand, and switching to an ergonomic keyboard. It took me a good month of annoyance until I could type on it properly (M$ 4000), but it sorted out my wrist pains almost instantly. It helped with the end of the day stiff neck too, something to do with the weird lifted front sorting your posture I think.

[lagerstarfish]

A thing that helps me is changing my whole work set up a few times a day. I move my chair between different heights and also move my screen between sitting on the desk and on different sized piles of paper and shit. Sometimes sitting high up and looking down at the screen (angled right of course) is just what my back/elbow/shoulder/wrist/posture needs.

[Muenchener]

I've always found extensive touchpad use much much worse for my wrists than mouse work

Me too. When I think abut the timing of the problem, I used mouse & keyboard for years with no issues, and the trouble started when I became a heavy user of laptops with trackpads.

Notes to self: more persistence with the left handed mousing. Plug a mouse into the laptop whenever possible. Go to shop & look at some alternative mice.

Many thanks for all the tips.

[Wipey Why]

I have been using a trackball for about 12 months in the office and it does seem to help. Would reccommend you try the various options and see what suits you.

[slackline]

I agree with laptops fucking up your wrists.

Its quite simple to see why, hold your hands in front of you and then place your fingers on the base keys (which if you touch-type on a QWETY keyboard are ASDF for your left fingers and JKL; for your right).  In order to get your fingers onto the base keys for touch-typing on most laptops you have to twist your hands slightly in the horizontal plane to bring the heel of your hand under the base of your thumbs closer together (whilst the little fingers move away from each other).  This is over-emphasised on netbooks and small form laptops. 

I find its also an issue with straight desktop keyboards though, after all, most people's shoulders are wider than the width of a keyboard.

This is the keyboard I mention and its got natural built-in wrist supports.  Because the keyboard is split you don't have to twist your hands to get them onto the base keys.


Microsoft Natural Ergo Keyboard 4000 Stiff & Sticky Space Bar Fix by paulmichaels79uf, on Flickr

(Never had a problem with a stiff space-bar despite having used three or four of these keyboards at various places of employment and home over the years).

[tomtom]

I agree with laptops fucking up your wrists.

I think its using the trackpads with laptops that does this - read lagers point on small form keyboards... still its horses for courses etc.. I've done all my writing on a laptop (I only occasionally code on a desktop keboard) and thats quite alot of writing.. mind you, I do have small hands/fingers, so never have any problems doubbble kitting heys...

If I'm on a flight etc.. and cant use a mouse with my laptop, then I get really achy wrists. then again, typing position on Easyjet isnt ideal

Those ergonomic keyboards are interesting - but the chap in the office next door has one, but (wants head banging emoticon) he doesnt touch type, so he's always reaching accross the divide to type the odd letter with right hand or left! Which really defeats the point in the first place!

[slackline]

Yes, you only really benefit from an split-ergonomic keyboard if you can touch type.

[csurfleet]

I thought I could touch type, and it was still surprising how often I'd find myself trying to press the 'B' key with my right index finger, or vice versa. Took a while to work itself out but I'd never go back now.

[T_B]

The problem area is the centreline of the top of my forearm

I've had exactly the same. Learnt to use my left hand and now mix it up between the two. I haven't had wrist problems for a few years now.

[jonsse]

Girls, get a man's job. Then everything will ache !   

[lukeinaz]

The only way a computer can cause  injury to your wrist is by falling from a great height.

People banged away on typewriters for 12 hrs at a time and never complained of such things.

RSI is a myth.  Check the TMS forums for more information.

Good luck!

[Probes]

This isn't climbng related - although I suspect climbing may not be helping it - but there's such a wealth of knowledge and experience here, I thought I'd try asking anyway.

My quarter of a century in the software industry is starting to take its toll, in the form of discomfort in my right wrist related to using a mouse. The problem area is the centreline of the top of my forearm (as seen resting my palm on a table), for a couple of inches starting just above the wrist joint. Using a scroll wheel with my middle finger seems to be the worst thing to do.

Stretching provides short term relief but it certainly is't getting any better long term. Lately I've started oding reverse wrist curls to counteract any climbing-related imbalanaces that might be accumulatig; too early to say if that makes a difference. Anything else I should be doing? Change my mouse or learn more keyboard shortcuts perhaps?

Im a cad tech and use a mouse pretty much solid for 40 hours a week. I found a support under the wrist ( rolled up a3 ) tweaked to just the right height does the trick. I think the key is learning to completely relax the wrist and use just your fingers to shift the mouse about, any slight tension in your wrist will build up and obviously give you a bit of pain. I set my mouse to super sensitive so i hardly have to do anything with it. 

[slackline]

People banged away on typewriters for 12 hrs at a time and never complained of such things.

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single classical type-writer that has a mouse.  Happy to be proven wrong though.

[BB]

I don't know what's more shocking. The assertion that RSI doesn't exist or Slackers recommending a Microsoft product! Duncan's horses will turn and eat each other before long.

[lukeinaz]

I don't know what's more shocking. The assertion that RSI doesn't exist..

Sorry, I believe the pain is real.  But it is not from a repetitive injury as indicated.  Most RSIs are a result of a mind-body disorder.  I had the EMGs done showing bilateral CTS and was one step away from surgery.  Luckily I found the true cause and was able to treat this appropriately.  Please PM for more details.   

[slackline]

I don't know what's more shocking. The assertion that RSI doesn't exist or Slackers recommending a Microsoft product! Duncan's horses will turn and eat each other before long.

  

[csurfleet]

Sorry, I believe the pain is real.  But it is not from a repetitive injury as indicated.  Most RSIs are a result of a mind-body disorder. 

Um, I had pain, I changed the physical stresses on my wrists (the new keyboard bringing them up and out) and the pain went away. My mind body disorder is responsible for a lot, but painful wrists it aint.