[Johnny Brown]

Folks, if we're not careful we could be heading towards some problems with access down t'dale. I know its easy to take access to Chee Dale for granted but please be aware it is not as secure as it might appear. There are a few issues going on - taken one at a time they aren't so bad, but coming all together as they are at present and we have problems...

Much of Chee Dale is owned and managed by the Derbyshire Wildlife Trust (the main exceptions being Rubicon and The Chee Dale Cornice. Their priority is conservation, and to that end general public access is restricted to footpaths. Climbing access is a big exception to this, and although the BMC have maintained good relations with them over the years it can be an uneasy truce.

Firstly, and I can barely believe this, poaching. Climbers have been suspected of poaching for a while, and have recently been caught doing so. Be under no illusions - this is a criminal offence and the next person caught will be arrested. Trout are thriving in the Wye due to centuries of very careful, expensive management, and fishing there is regarded as some of the country's finest. I really can't reiterate how fucking stupid it is jeopardising decades of BMC access work for the price of a couple of fish. If anyone sees any climbers with tackle or fish, please make this clear to them.

Second, bolting. The DWT are very much against fixed gear and quite alert to its appearance. Every time bolts appear outside agreed areas it reinforces their impression is that climbers say one thing, do another, are not to be trusted, and need controlling. If you don't know exactly which areas that involves don't touch a drill. We tried to arrange a meeting last year to inform everyone of these details, can I suggest we try again?

Thirdly parking. This isn't a new problem, but with the last ten months providing the best Cornice conditions for years, the residents of Wormhill are currently very unhappy and have made a formal complaint to the landowner - DWT. The tunnels from Millers Dale are now open and should provide drier access to Chee Tor and Cornice that takes about a minute longer than walking in from Chee Tor cottage, and is quicker than parking in Wormhill village. Millers Dale is pay-and-display but I don't think it is enforced.

[JC]

The DWT are very much against fixed gear and quite alert to its appearance.

Leaving quickdraws in place on routes down the Cornice i think is totally pointless and irresponsible. There were 2 routes clipped up today with bright coloured shiny draws. All the routes on the right hand side are incredibly easy to strip   

[Johnny Brown]

Quickdraws on the Cornice are not an issue currently as far as I know - for starters the Cornice is one of the few crags not owned by the DWT.

The DWT are very much against fixed gear and quite alert to its appearance

By 'alert to its appearance', I don't mean how fixed gear looks, I mean they spot new bolts quickly. Retrobolting on their crags gets spotted quickly and is not liked - more on the basis of physical damage than visual intrusion.

[mrjonathanr]

Are you saying everything bar the Cornice is on their land? I notice you mention Rubicon. Does the same apply to WCJ? Thanks.

[Johnny Brown]

I'm pretty sure Rubicon itself is owned by the fishing syndicate. Prett much everything else bar Chee Dale Cornice is on DWT land.

[dave]

Leaving quickdraws in place on routes down the Cornice i think is totally pointless and irresponsible.

Or at any other crag.

[Bonjoy]

The Nook is also not on DWT land (I asked when trying to get permission to remove some Sycamores from the base).
I had a meeting regarding rebolting with the DWT two years ago and they are reasonable people, but as I said regards White Gold, they pay attention to the crags and they do notice when new bolts go in, especially when this happens outside of agreed areas.

[hairich]

me and stef saw some students at rubicon a few weeks ago and one had a fly rod and was casting while resting.sorry it never occured to us to say anything but will if we see them again

[Johnny Brown]

Break the thing round their head if you catch them again.

[shark]

, but as I said regards White Gold, they pay attention to the crags and they do notice when new bolts go in, especially when this happens outside of agreed areas.

I have to admit I wasnt aware of no-go bolting areas in Chee Dale and wouldnt have thought twice about bolting some of the areas cited. The BMC RAD info below:   

http://thebmc.co.uk/bmccrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=459

Cheedale is a SSSI and cSAC with a high level of legal protection under European law. Access for climbing is concessionary and can only be maintained if climber's continue to adhere to a number of conditions agreed with Derbyshire Wildlife Trust (who own the Southern bank of the river).

These include,

· No access along the top of the dale beyond a corner formed by the wall and obvious new fence bounding the 3rd major gully east of Plum Buttress. Therefore, no access to Runyans Corner and Moving, Long, or Two-Tier Buttresses from the dale top.
· No further bolted development on the small, vegetated, and obscure crags, which rim the dale - most of these are of negligible climbing quality.
· Do not leave in situ crabs or tape on bolt hangars.
· Parts of Nettle Buttress, Chee Tor East, and Dogs Dinner area are bolt free areas of outstanding appearance.
· Do not remove large swathes of ivy.

[RichK]

Folks, if we're not careful we could be heading towards some problems with access down t'dale.

JB, thanks for the alert on this stuff(PM'd u).....it would be a real shame to lose Cheedale, particularly as It'll soon be 20 mins drive from me . I haven't seen any mention of this on other channel & I'm sure the are more likely lurking there than here. Surely a post or news on item on UKC is going to get to more folk than a post here? ........no offense Sharkster

[jonjon]

Worth remembering that some Cheedale regular climbers are also members of DWT and at least one of them thinks the wildlife a lot more important than the climbing. So it is really easy to spot new bolts/cleaning.

Thanks to the opening of the tunnels Wormhill can go back to the worms.

Also re parking, if you park 'illegally' on the roads, i.e. at Rubicon on the clearway bit you might get ticketed.

[Johnny Brown]

We've intentionally not posted this on UKC though there is info on the BMC site. Would prefer to keep it a little lower profile and avoid some of the idiotic comments which are par for the course on there. DWT etc monitor forums and it doesn't always give them a great impression of climbers.

[205Chris]

I tried the new approach this afternoon and it's fantastic.

Last week I walked into the Cornice from the Chee Tor Cottage approach and as it currently stands it's muddy, slippy and best suited to wellies or walking boots.

The new approach is much better, doesn't feel any longer and has the added bonus of no slog back up hill at the end of day.

Yes, the car park is pay and display, but if you get a car full of mates it'll cost you less than a quid each and you'll be saving the environment.

With this new approach there shouldn't be any excuse for parking at Wormhill any more.

[fatdoc]

i wish I had this access back in the day when I basically lived down the dale for 2 years.... (15 +  yrs ago) hitchin there 3 days a week

respect for this thread...

easy for me to say... but I implore all to go with the new access... the landowners can, and will,  ban if they think it best on balance


to lose the dale....


christ. not worth considering.

[El Mocho]

may I suggest for future re-equipping (on allowable crags) you consider going with Bolt Products' 6mm twisted-leg resin bolts... ...from pigeon's cave last year.

Climbed down Pigeon's t other day and they are pretty unobtrusive so it could be a good way to go. My only issue was I thought they were going to snap they are so skinny!

[El Mocho]

p.s. living in a place where tourists parking can be a bit of an issue (at weekends the streets around our house get pretty busy with people looking for free all day parking) I have seen first hand how annoyed normal, relatively calm, people get when access to there property/drive is made difficult on a regular basis (very rarely blocked but often made a little harder work...) so it sounds like a really good idea to start using the worm hill way, we could also use our bikes this way and do the approach in seconds!

[shark]

BMC update

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4275
 
Chee Dale Access Issues
 
Several access issues have cropped up at the same time concerning this special place. It’s special for both sport and trad climbing and as a nature reserve that is of high ecological importance for plants, birds, fish, geology and landscape. It holds the highest level of environmental protection.

This news article explains new ways of approaching the Dale, reminds everyone of the access and bolting agreements the BMC has negotiated with Derbyshire Wildlife Trust who own most of it, records their thanks for help with recent work and calls for volunteers to help remove an invasive non-native plant called Himalayan Balsam.

Access and approaches

The railway tunnels are now open for public access on foot or on bicycle, and the large car park at Millers Dale Station is again fully open.

The easiest and preferred way to get to Dogs Dinner, Chee Tor and the Cornice is via the old railway track from Millers Dale Station, or from the large lay by on the A6 at Topley Pike via Old Dale. A well made path leads down to the riverside path from the south side of the railway track just after the long tunnel which starts west of Bridge 75. Please do not use the more direct but unmade eroding descent down the railway embankment to Dogs Dinner on the north side.

This avoids having to park in Wormhill at all. A strong letter of complaint has been received citing almost every form of nuisance behaviour possible, but in particular inconsiderate parking. It’s not the first time there have been such complaints, and not surprisingly the problem is worst when there are long dry spells of weather. Please leave the villagers in peace, and if you do think of going there avoid blocking entrances, damaging soft verges, creating congestion and so on, and remember there are now better alternatives.

All crags in the Dale should be approached from the riverside public right of way and not along the opposite river bank. The alluvial soils are fragile, as are the plants that grow in them, and the Wildlife Trust does not want them disturbed. So approach Two Tier and the Long Wall by crossing the river at the weir opposite Two Tier and Chee Tor by crossing the river at the island opposite Nostradamus.

For Plum Buttress use the stile and path directly below the buttress and avoid using the track across the scree altogether.

A very important point to note is that there is no public access within the Dale away from the public right of way, and as climbers we have unique negotiated concessions.

When crossing the river be careful not to disturb the river bed or anything in the river. This contains a very special fish population, and is regularly patrolled by the water bailiff.

Bolting and other climbing guidelines

Bolted routes were in the main established before the Wildlife Trust acquired the site. They would very much prefer there to be no bolts or lower offs at all, but have conceded that where sport routes are established they may remain, though any replacement of fixed gear can only be on a like for like basis and should not be glaringly obvious. Routes should always be left clean of quick draws or tat.

There is an absolute embargo on bolting new routes and on retro bolting. It is really important that everyone observes this. If you came across anyone infringing this agreement please point out it could easily cost all concessionary access for everyone. The Wildlife Trust is absolutely clear this is no idle threat.

Trad climbing is not a problem providing all vegetation is left undisturbed, whether ascending a route or during abseil descent. Leaving vegetation undisturbed applies just as much to venues like Rhubarb and Cosmopolitan where these are re-vegetating.

On some minor or largely unclimbed crags like Waterline and Chee Tor East the Wildlife Trust do not want any climbing access at all – and would prefer the same applied to Nettle Buttress too. The BMC’s priority in negotiation has been to retain access to the major and most popular venues.

Wildlife Trust thanks climbers

And so to the thanks from the Wildlife Trust for the help climbers gave in helping with the new board walk near the Cornice, and to the BMC’s Access and Conservation Trust (ACT) for helping to fund it.

Volunteers needed

Last but not least – the Himalayan Balsam. As a garden escapee without the natural controls it attracts in its native habitat it becomes dominant in preferred locations shading out native vegetation, allowing erosion to set in during winter months and reducing biodiversity. A campaign to remove it from the Wye is underway, and if you can give a hand with this, your help would be much appreciated and help to strengthen climbers’ reputation with the conservation bodies in the Dale as a responsible and trustworthy user group. Please contact Steve Moores on osprey@greenbee.net direct to register you interest or find out more.
 


By Henry Folkard (BMC Peak Access Co-ordinator) 

[T_B]

Can I just say, you can write press releases all day long, but far more useful would be a decent map.

I haven't got a clue where half of these place names are. Did a google to find a map showing these new tunnels and what they link up but couldn't find anything usable.

Sorry, but where is Bridge 75 precisely?

[cofe]

what a very good point!

[cofe]

We've intentionally not posted this on UKC though there is info on the BMC site. Would prefer to keep it a little lower profile and avoid some of the idiotic comments which are par for the course on there. DWT etc monitor forums and it doesn't always give them a great impression of climbers.

can't it be added but without an attached forum thread? the point of all this is to publicise, right? Seems crazy to not use UKC's news function.

[Johnny Brown]

Can I just say, you can write press releases all day long, but far more useful would be a decent map.

I haven't got a clue where half of these place names are. Did a google to find a map showing these new tunnels and what they link up but couldn't find anything usable.

Sorry, but where is Bridge 75 precisely?

My apologies, Henry only got on email two years ago, I doubt maps are likely yet.

Luckily its very simple - all the tunnels between Buxton and Bakewell are now open to peds and cyclists. Now, given a bike, 'the valley is gone - and the Gods with it, and every fool in Buxton can be in Bakewell in half an hour and every fool at Bakewell in Buxton'.

As it was:


Bridge 75 is the one just upstream from the Cornice and Chee Tor, or downstream from the Nook. IE not the bridge at Millers Dale that they abseil off, or the ones between Plum Buttress and the Embankment.

As it is:


What is suggested is that if approaching from Millers Dale, you don't hop over the wall on emerging from the tunnel behind Chee Tor. Instead take the path in the 'wrong' upstream direction, which after about 20 yds cuts back in the right direction to the footbridge above the stepping stones. For Chee Tor there is then the narrow path along the right bank, or the DWT would prefer you then go downstream and wade.

[dave]

For info peeps apparently last thurs one o the tunnels was shut cos of falling masonry, and i don't mean DTR. Dunno if its been sorted/opened since.

[Nigel]

I parked at Miller's Dale car park and cycled to Bridge 75, then walked down to the Cornice. All told took about 10 minutes, bear in mind I'm on crutches so you can probably halve that for most people. Bridge 75 is the enormous brick arch bridge that looms over the valley as you look upstream from the Cornice / Cheet Tor / Dog's Dinner. Even if you walked it it would prob only be 20 mins and its all dead flat and paved, quite why anyone would want to mud surf down from Wormhill then face the uphill slog back out anymore is beyond me, other than fear of parking charges (not an issue for an evening hit, or if you ignore it!). As an aside some of the parking in Wormhill last year was a disgrace, I'm on the villager's side on this one.

it strikes me that if our most active bolters are unaware of the agreed limits to activity then as JB says maybe we should make a concerted effort to have a meeting of minds between bolters and access reps to make sure everyone is on the same page. To be honest I personally disagree that bolts are visually intrusive, but the fact remains that we have negotiated ourselves a nice deal in Cheedaleand we have to live by it whether we agree or not. If we are stepping outside of the agreed bounds then we need to self police and be seen to do so.

[nai]

Wouls a links be useful:

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/monsaltrail