[preston]

I guess grades are subjective, but here are some of my personal gradings to illustrate the point:

Raindogs 8a
Super Cool, 8a
Urgent Action, 8a.
Ecstasy 8a+, 1/2 a grade harder than UA.
Herbie, 7c
Obsession 7c
New Dawn 7c+ no easier than The Ashes
The Ashes 7c+
Sticky Wicket 7b+
Fifty for 5 7c
Chocolate Logger 7b+
Magnetic fields, Energy Vampire, Overnight Sensation, Connect 4, The Oak all 8a+


Runs for cover!

[Charlton Chestwig]

This is all very interesting, but how come no one has mentioned Begozi... ?
It's a bit tough for 6a+ imo.
That is all

[tim palmer]

I guess grades are subjective, but here are some of my personal gradings to illustrate the point:

Raindogs 8a
Super Cool, 8a
Urgent Action, 8a.
Ecstasy 8a+, 1/2 a grade harder than UA.
Herbie, 7c
Obsession 7c
New Dawn 7c+ no easier than The Ashes
The Ashes 7c+
Sticky Wicket 7b+
Fifty for 5 7c
Chocolate Logger 7b+
Magnetic fields, Energy Vampire, Overnight Sensation, Connect 4, The Oak all 8a+


Runs for cover!

I agree!  There is a very tedious trend for downgrading every route and boulder problem in the country. People are just fitter and stronger now (plus a little element of enjoying defaecating on another person's cornflakes perhaps?).  It was a long time ago these things were done, nutrition was poor, I hear mark leech had rickets and Pete Gomersall had a nasty case of kwashiorkor.

[Serpico]

There is a very tedious trend for downgrading every route and boulder problem in the country.

I thought there was a trend for upgrading currently
How about we start a trend for leaving the grades of well established routes alone?

[tim palmer]

I thought there was a trend for upgrading currently
How about we start a trend for leaving the grades of well established routes alone?

I can barely think of anything which has been upgraded.  I agree with the leaving grades alone, as I said the only thing that has changed in twenty years since these things were done is people are fitter.

[Serpico]

I can barely think of anything which has been upgraded.

There's been a few; Baboo, The Oak, Mid Ledge for example.
And Soft Option, Main Overhang and Zoolook are currently being championed as candidates for an upgrade.

[JohnM]

Isn't it only Andy that thinks Main Overhang is 8a?  Never 8a in a million years.  Actually it might be if anything else comes off the crux!

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Isn't it only Andy that thinks Main Overhang is 8a?  Never 8a in a million years.  Actually it might be if anything else comes off the crux!

Ive not done it so cannot offer any personal opinions, but Ru, Alan Cassidy, jon clark, and the hamer brothers all took 8a  (8a votes 11, 7c+ votes 5) would at least suggest the grade is on the borderline, question is which side of the line it should be now for the majority of people with the hold loss...

[fatdoc]

I guess grades are subjective, but here are some of my personal gradings to illustrate the point:

Raindogs 8a
Super Cool, 8a
Urgent Action, 8a.
Ecstasy 8a+, 1/2 a grade harder than UA.
Herbie, 7c
Obsession 7c
New Dawn 7c+ no easier than The Ashes
The Ashes 7c+
Sticky Wicket 7b+
Fifty for 5 7c
Chocolate Logger 7b+
Magnetic fields, Energy Vampire, Overnight Sensation, Connect 4, The Oak all 8a+


Runs for cover!

so you should..

that's bollocks

[The Aaronator]

New Dawn 7c+ no easier than The Ashes

 

[The Aaronator]

Sticky Wicket 7b+

 

[The Aaronator]

Obsession 7c

 

[The Aaronator]

Super Cool, 8a
Urgent Action, 8a.
Ecstasy 8a+, 1/2 a grade harder than UA.
Herbie, 7c

Magnetic fields......Connect 4, The Oak all 8a+

 

[Andy F]

Mescalito and New Dawn both 7c?

[preston]

People loving the graing I see,  some more!

Henrys Route/ or Mighty fine Ass 7c+, Space Invaders 7c+, Tremello 7c, Mescalito 7c+, New Dawn 7c+, Vogue 7c+, Baboo 7c+,

GBH 8a and Zoolook 8a (2 routes the same grade), Straightened still 8a.

Obsession 7c, 1/2 a grade harder than Chocolate logger  if 7b+.

Sticky Wicket 7b+ 1/2 grade easier than Fifty for 5 if 7c, and just as hard as logger.

Harder routes get 8a+ if moves are harder than or equal to V7.

[Serpico]

Harder routes get 8a+ if moves are harder than or equal to V7.

So that'll be The Groove, Ecstasy and Grooved Arete down to 8a as well.
I'm starting to look a soft grader by comparison here.

[preston]

As stated originally, I guess this is all personal and subjective.

Ecstasy has 2 * V7 sections = 8a+ route

Groove not been on it, but I imagine like everything in sport climbing it all boils down to, if you can do the moves and have the time you can do it.

This is why I think the short routes at Malham are so unforgiving because routes like connect 4 which get 8a, just seem to stop the plodders who can do GBH, Baboo etc, because they cannot boulder the moves out. I am also a bit of a plodder by the way!

The reverse argument is that Magnetic is just a bouldering section to a short plod, is it 2 grades harder than connect 4?

Urgent Action is 8a if you consider it has no more hard climbing than Zoolook and Raindogs.

I guess I am not really ironing out anything, I agree with others who just say leave it all alone, but grade debates are interesting non the less.

[The Aaronator]

I guess if you have rubbish technique then Preston's grading starts to make sense.

[JohnM]

I'm not sure any of the sections on Ecstacy would be considered V7.  You can't really grade routes based on the bouldering difficulty of the sections anyway and the grade should be based on the overall 'feel' of the route.  A peak style route with a V7 start into an easy finish wouldn't automatically 8a+.  E.g. Out Of My Tree - V8 into an much easier finish is 8a.

[ianv]

The reverse argument is that Magnetic is just a bouldering section to a short plod, is it 2 grades harder than connect 4?

Definitely. The hardest bit of connect four is clipping the first bolt. Magnetic is a hard move after a pretty sustained sequence and you can still fall off the top.

[Andy F]

The reverse argument is that Magnetic is just a bouldering section to a short plod, is it 2 grades harder than connect 4?

Definitely. The hardest bit of connect four is clipping the first bolt. Magnetic is a hard move after a pretty sustained sequence and you can still fall off the top.

I'd say using a clip stick is easier than the crux of Connect 4

[TobyD]

I'd say using a clip stick is easier than the crux of Connect 4

i don't know about that; those beta sticks are pretty dodgy these days. Still though it's not quite V7, so it can't be more than HVS, can it? And using a branch and some tape old school style ... that's even harder than soft option, but about the same as Consenting Adults.

[ianv]

I'd say using a clip stick is easier than the crux of Connect 4

That'  cheating   

[groovedog]

Given the release of the new Rockfax Yorkshire Limestone has there any been grade shift in actual print? Always nice to see an upgrade!
 
As there hasn't been a Yorks Limestone route guide for a year or two / ten? I'm intrigued. Has anyone got a copy yet?

[T_B]

I had a flick through and noticed that Cry Freedom was 8c and Unjustified 8b+, Dalliance 8b if you go right at the top. Didn't notice any of the 8bs mentioned on this thread having been downgraded but I might be wrong.