After all, redpoint success can come after a quick work, a day or two trying or a prolonged seige so there's no standard bar 'success' to go by.
Did you redpoint Zoolook then Serpico? I assume that is your grade reference. My point was that it should probably be 8a for a RP, but the onsighters would argue 8a+, a different kettle of fish entirely.
Wo wo. Is the French grading system not for indicating the level of difficulty, all encompasing physical nature, to get from bottom to top clipping enroute, got nothing to do with how shite/good you are at reading the rock/route.
Does anyone know the answer? Any guidebook writers out there who've thought this through?
QuoteDid you redpoint Zoolook then Serpico? I assume that is your grade reference. My point was that it should probably be 8a for a RP, but the onsighters would argue 8a+, a different kettle of fish entirely.I redpointed it and thought 8a, but Ondra onsighted it and also thought 8a.If you grade for the onsight then you have to modify the redpoint grade with a luck/incompetence factor - which is undefinable, what happens when a talented onsighter happens along and makes all the right decisions first time?Grade for the easiest way up.
Ondra just took the given grade. I don't think he would've downgraded it if it were 8a+.
and he wasn't afraid to regrade other routes; The Mandela and Ecstacy.
My vote is for GBH to stay at 8a+ and Zoolook to stay at 8a. Can’t fathom why folk find Zoolook harder.Main Overhang seemed 8a to me, certainly harder than Toadall Recall Although saying that one of the key holds on MA was loose when I tried it a few year back so it might be quite different now.Comedy is fair at 7c. Wouldn’t argue with an upgrade on 50 for 5.Soft Option 8a+. I don’t understand Serpico’s comment about it possibly being 8a/7c+, is he getting mixed up with that Soft/Zero Option link up??More Rhubarb Faster seems desperate at the grade, pretty sure it has lost holds.I forget the name but that new one that extends WYSIWYG is 7c+ rather than 8a IMO.Haven’t been on it but most folk seem to think Mandela is 8a+ rather than 8b.The Bulge seemed more 7c+ than 8a to me.Generally I think routes should be graded for the standard line rather than cheating variations. Don’t see why my ticks should be downgraded just because other people are too weak/lazy to climb things properly.
Sorry, can't be bothered to read the whole thread, so apologies if I repeat stuff.Here's my 2 penn'orth:GBH - I thought was 8a+, but did it the original way (i.e. straight up)Zoolook - DEFINITELY.......
GBH - I thought was 8a+, but did it the original way (i.e. straight up)Zoolook - DEFINITELY
... bumpWhat is the answer to the burning question "Zoolook - DEFINITELY " ?
Having read today's posts.....I think Dead Calm is 8a (be it a soft one). Most people who reckoned it was 7c+ went left at the top and leapt for the comedy carabina and most people, myself included, who finished on the right and clipped the chain from a finishing hold thought it to be 8a (obviously the righteous path).