[pyrosis]

A question in my mind is "To train, or not to train?"

If you had effectively unlimited access to year-round outdoor bouldering in a favorable climate, and the time to get out and boulder ~4 times per week outside, would you do any supplemental training? I am curious what people's opinions on this are.

[rodma]

Unless you're a Bond style villain who has invented a device to control the weather/climate and devised a way of charging people for each dry day out on the rock, I can't really see the point in this market research 

Or have you just won the lottery and don't know whether to spend the rest of your life in the gym or not?

[pyrosis]

Well, no.. I live in Bishop actually. ~300 sunny days per year. So it actually is applicable. Most weeks I can manage 3-4 days outside. I have a hangboard but no gym. So.. I guess what I am asking is.. Is training a necessary supplement to climbing outside in order to break into the higher grades? Or is it more of something that people do in order to replace climbing outside? Just curious.

[Fultonius]

I think you are asking the wrong question.  Do you enjoy your days out, working your way through the problems, improving technique, getting a bit stronger?

Or, are you stuck in a rut, frustrated at your lack of progress?

I think only you can answer that question my friend.

If it was me, I would train very little, unless I found a project that took my fancy and I might do some specific, targeted training for that.

[pyrosis]

I enjoy the days out on the rock far more than hanging out in my garage with the hangboard. I see progression even though I do little training but I am still a novice in the grand scheme of the bouldering game, perhaps I wonder if there is a shortcut to improve more quickly.

[slackline]

I guess what I am asking is.. Is training a necessary supplement to climbing outside in order to break into the higher grades? Or is it more of something that people do in order to replace climbing outside? Just curious.

You don't need to train in order to improve but it will get you there a bit quicker if you supplement your climbing outdoors (and mileage on rock is time well invested).

[Rocksteady]

You can train on rock?

Getting on projects that are way too hard is strength training. Doing loads of problems back-to-back is endurance training.

In my mind, 'climbing' is going for flashes and quick sends in a few goes. Anything else is training. If I was in your (fortunate) position, I wouldn't get on the hangboard at all, unless I identified a specific weakness that was stopping me getting up a problem.

[Stubbs]

Bishop is definitely a place you can get strong just climbing outside, the nature of the climbing there is often just like climbing on a steep board indoors.  My friend who used to live there would climb outdoors when the season allowed (i.e. when it wasn't too hot) and trained on his friends board or took some time off during the height of the summer.

I think the key is that you need to make sure you're getting tired when you're climbing outside, and you're not just heading out, trying a few problems and drinking a few beers!

[pyrosis]

Thank everyone for the feedback. I appreciate it. Will chew on this for a bit and maybe come back with more questions.

[Serpico]

You can go a very long way just climbing outside with no supplemental training, but climbing is a sport that quickly starts to shape your body in a way that isn't really conducive to staying injury free, so I think at the least some supplemental strength training and stretching to maintain reasonable posture and muscle balance is a must (pec/arm/lat stretches, dumbbell bench press, bent-over rows, reverse wrist curls, rotator cuff strengthening).
Also it depends what you want to do with your days outside - do you want to be focussed on training on rock, or would you rather just climb? If it's the latter then you could supplement your climbing with some hangboarding, weights and core work in the evening after a day at the crag.

[rodma]

Well, no.. I live in Bishop actually. ~300 sunny days per year. So it actually is applicable. Most weeks I can manage 3-4 days outside. I have a hangboard but no gym. So.. I guess what I am asking is.. Is training a necessary supplement to climbing outside in order to break into the higher grades? Or is it more of something that people do in order to replace climbing outside? Just curious.

Sorry bout that, I just can't imagine what that must be like, whilst living in the land of mist and drizzle.

Personally, I wouldn't propbably train much, if at all, if I lived that close to decent bouldering and had guaranteed dry conditions. The only reason I train as much as I do, is because the time I do get on rock is so precious that I want to be as on form as I can be. If i could get out every day I would probably siege the problems that are my projects and get strong on the moves/holds themselves.

Serpico is correct about croos training/stretching to keep you as injury free as possible.

Fingerboarding is def good for training for specific grip types, if you're not getting that on the rock already

[Probes]

Hey serps, id be interested to know what you think/would plan for myself and the following. Trying to put together a vague plan of training with a 2 wk trip end of april to s france being the objective. Trying to integrate some endurance training whilst keeping bouldering power up to the level ive got it up to over winter. Been wonderng what kind of endurance volume to do, and when, and how to mix it up with staying on short board problems. Let that knowledge flow my way.....   
Im shit at planning training, good at focusing on one thing but not spreading it across all areas.

[slackline]

@Serpico : You should start charging for all the specific training advice you post on here.

[shark]

@Serpico : You should start charging for all the specific training advice you post on here.

I've written to the Mayor of Bolton proposing that he's granted Freedom of the City   

[Adam Lincoln]

@Serpico : You should start charging for all the specific training advice you post on here.

I've written to the Mayor of Bolton Horwich proposing that he's granted Freedom of the City town.

[SA Chris]

Well, no.. I live in Bishop actually. ~300 sunny days per year.

Smug and Superior, you'll fit right in here.

If I didn't work and had weather like you do I wouldn't do any training. I know I probably should, but I sure as fuck wouldn't bother.

[BB]

You can go a very long way just climbing outside with no supplemental training, but climbing is a sport that quickly starts to shape your body in a way that isn't really conducive to staying injury free, so I think at the least some supplemental strength training and stretching to maintain reasonable posture and muscle balance is a must (pec/arm/lat stretches, dumbbell bench press, bent-over rows, reverse wrist curls, rotator cuff strengthening).

Word. I went to TCA a while ago with a friend who's a Physio and he spent the whole time grimacing and commenting on all the muscular imbalances that were on show.

The phrase "injury waiting to happen" was mentioned several times.

[pyrosis]

Smug and Superior, you'll fit right in here.

If I didn't work and had weather like you do I wouldn't do any training. I know I probably should, but I sure as fuck wouldn't bother.

Smug, maybe LOL  Superior? No.. I'm just a wanker who got lucky in my location, looking to improve. I know most people on this board probably climb much better than I do, which is why I look here to gain wisdom. 

As far as training at the crag goes, is it enough to devote certain days to training certain aspects (long easy circuits some days for stamina/base, pulls on very hard problems certain days for strength and/or power), and other days to just go out and climb?

I definitely understand the need to do opposition work. My idea on this front was to do bodyweight exercise on days off targeting those muscles that need balance, such as pushups, dips, handstands, handstand pushups etc... plus some rotator cuff work and wrist extensor work, and stretching especially of the major internal rotators of the shoulder. Is this a solid plan?

[pyrosis]

Also.. Is it better to work opposition muscles on rest days? Or better on days ON, after climbing? Or does it not matter?

[SA Chris]

I would rest on rest days, or hit Mammoth for some "active" rest!

[Nibile]

I can only add that any shortcut you'll find to become strong quickly will get you injured quickly. be patient and allow yourself a long climbing career.

[ducko]

as most have said you cant beat getting out on the rock plus its more fun,
but, i also like gyms and fingerboards,
last summer when i started climbing the hardest route i did was a v4, i spent alot of tiem in the winter in the climbing gym and have now started using a finger board when im in work (just too work the fingers a bit) and i went out the other day for my first session outdoors and did a v7,
so really, i dont know if its better than actually getting on the rock but its certainly made a difference in my climbing

good luck