[yorkshireman]

when in font do you use pof?if so,how do you use it and how often?
anyone know how much(grams) you would need to make a tennis ball size in a rag?

[slackline]

Never & none.

[Andy B]

I know of very few climbers who use pof in font.

If it is regarded as fucking up the rock everywhere else in the world then why use it in the best bouldering area there is.

[yorkshireman]

very few climbers or very few english climbers?ive not been to font for about 7 years so maybe attitudes have changed but all the french and most english were using it last time i was there

[Andy B]

British and other nationalities. You see lots of French not using it now too, but does it matter who else is using it given that it fucks up the rock to a much greater extent than chalk?

[Paul B]

maybe attitudes have changed

Its certainly less wide spread than when I first visited and I agree with Andy's sentiments entirely, just don't use it.

[yorkshireman]

they dont like you using chalk either these days.
so is there a new anti pof movement in the forrest or is it just oppinions and choice to abstain from using it?
as ive said,ive not been for a while so im at the mercy of people giving me oppinions

[underground]

Just do what you'd do at Stanage, that'd be a good rule of thumb.

[lagerstarfish]

ive not been to font for about 7 years so maybe attitudes have changed but all the french and most english were using it last time i was there

2004 this was the case, so in 2005 (maybe 6? can't remember) I took a pof rag, but ended up not using it coz I didn't know what to do with it.

Then I got some knowledge in the visits after that about the effects and didn't even try.

To my knowledge; Jasper has not used the pof rag that I gave him as a birthday present some years ago for the same reasons - he had plenty of opportunity. Interestingly we have never had The Pof Conversation. It's kind of like like The Anal Sex Question with a first long term partner really.

"do you fancy it, coz I'm up for it, but am not sure about how dirty it is, or the best way of doing it, or how much it might hurt something... what do you think?"

Obviously I have never asked if I can bum Jasper, but the analogy is reasonable.

As Underground says, use a thumb first

[robertostallioni]

First rule of bum club lagers......

[yorkshireman]

My new motto-loves asking the questions you don't.
As I've said,I thought it best to ask as I've not been for years and I've only used it in the past because I was lead to believe it was necessary to climb any of the harder,slipper problems but I'm happy to be educated just asking as it's not analy with any fingers,thumbs or whatever else you can imagine that I would rather not

[underground]

If it's 'the question' as according to lagers, the answer in my experience is 'it's for shitting out of, why would you want to do that?

So, if you want pain, and holds covered in shit, go ahead with the pof. Feel free to shit all over the plantation too, but expect a little backlash.

You can probably pay lagers £275 to bum you in case you're not sure about it.

[lagerstarfish]

You can probably pay lagers £275 to bum you in case you're not sure about it.

there's a Recession Special on at the moment for all my weight loss customers

£25 off when you order the hot beef enema

Plus get a pof rag for only £9.99 (rrp £75.99)

and enter our free prize draw = you have already been selected for a GUARANTEED cash prize up to £30,000 - or at least 28p (less postage)

[Jim]

have used pof in the past (only in font) and tbh its pretty shit. don't bother these days

[Adam Lincoln]

I know a fair few locals who seem to still use it. The age rage of them is quite varied. Seems the very youngest generation, early twenties and so on seem to avoid it. Is there any signs of any pof usage on the harder classics. The Island/Big Island, Elephunk, Gecko/Gecko Assis (I didn't notice any on this), Kheops?

[lagerstarfish]

I know a fair few locals who seem to still use it. The age rage of them is quite varied.

angry old people are well scary - especially the ones with walking sticks

[iain_cbr]

A quick google of pof gave me this page http://bleau.info/cleanup/magnesium.html
Just thought I'd throw it into the mix for opinions. I've never been to font now used pof so I have no ideas for either side!

[tomtom]

I dont really understand the logic of the article.

It suggests that the bad thing about chalk is that it blocks up the pores of the rock (when there is too much)... Not sure I agree with that, but for now lets go with that article.

Hang on, if you whack enough resin (pof) on a hold, wont that have the same effect - or actually worse, as whats easier to remove from rock, chalk or Pof? Theres a clue - one is easily rinsed away, one isnt...

Pof can ruin gritstone by the way.. someone poffed the key holds on DWR and Dreamland at Almscliff c.3 years ago, and the holds feel OK now, they were uber glassy (esp Dreamland) for a year or two, but theres still a resinous/chemical sheen around the holes today...

[Johnny Brown]

I've only used pof once or twice, but...

I think its pretty arrogant telling the old bleusards that they are wrong on this. The worst 'fucking up' I've seen pof do is some black circles at the base of Carnage. Not ideal, but not in the same league as hold erosion like on Vienna for example. On the other hand, there is a chance that it pre-emptively strengthens the patina of the rock and actually prevents erosion - in a similar way that 'Substance X' has proved partially effective in slowing crumbling holds on gritstone and sandstone in the UK.

I would be rather more cautious on coarser rocks like grit, but the way Bowden has been fucked in the last ten years is hardly proof that we know more about sandstone than bleusards. I doubt there has been any proper research done, so this will always be up for argument, but it is worth considering - would pof use have prolonged the life of those holds? I'm pretty sure it would. Might the Bridestones have benefited too, who knows?

On the argument that chalk is easily rinsed away, well usually yes, but on holds that never get drainage the build-up can be pretty grim and not easily removed. And its a considerably worse eyesore...

[dave]

As a counter to JB, if you look at elephant, which has a lot of rock of the same type/hardness as bowden, and there's a lot of very bowden-esque knackered scoops for footholds. Infact these are all over the forest on the odd bits of softer rock on easier problems. Pof hasn't saved these - infact you could argue that having sand stuck to your shoe when climbing will only serve to make this wearing away effect worse.

On contrast look at the rock in the UK which is most comparable to the good hard font rock - kyloe-in (everything above 2foot of the deck) and there's very little hold erosion, exactly the same as the main hard rock in font.

The pof-hold-stabilisation argument is also counter to the traditional pof line that it "washes off in the rain".

[Andy B]

I've only used pof once or twice, but...

I think its pretty arrogant telling the old bleusards that they are wrong on this. The worst 'fucking up' I've seen pof do is some black circles at the base of Carnage. Not ideal, but not in the same league as hold erosion like on Vienna for example. On the other hand, there is a chance that it pre-emptively strengthens the patina of the rock and actually prevents erosion - in a similar way that 'Substance X' has proved partially effective in slowing crumbling holds on gritstone and sandstone in the UK.

I would be rather more cautious on coarser rocks like grit, but the way Bowden has been fucked in the last ten years is hardly proof that we know more about sandstone than bleusards. I doubt there has been any proper research done, so this will always be up for argument, but it is worth considering - would pof use have prolonged the life of those holds? I'm pretty sure it would. Might the Bridestones have benefited too, who knows?

On the argument that chalk is easily rinsed away, well usually yes, but on holds that never get drainage the build-up can be pretty grim and not easily removed. And its a considerably worse eyesore...

The suggestion that the damage to problems caused by pof amounts to some black circles on Carnage is laughable.

Vienna was treated to stabilise it long before the erosion from the last ten years. It clearly didn't work, but stabilisation efforts in the peak have been far more effective. Your cautiousness over grit just smacks of Nimbyism, or shall we start using pof at the Plantation to protect it? I'm sure there are lots of ways to strengthen the patina of sedimentary rock, but most, like pof, will negatively effect the climbing surface.

As for you, of all people, accusing us of arrogance for questioning aspects of other peoples climbing! Well that's a peach!

[Johnny Brown]

Well it was just a thought.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to strengthen the patina of sedimentary rock, but most, like pof, will negatively effect the climbing surface.

Most of the damaged problems in the UK have only been popular for twenty years. If the rock can't handle even such a short period of use, well I think we need to be looking at this kind of treatment more widely and more pro-actively. I still maintain I haven't seen any holds in font that have been 'ruined' by pof in any way as badly as those that are damaged by erosion. I'm far from convinced that pof is the cure, but I think it a bit premature to dismiss it so entirely.

the damage to problems caused by pof amounts to some black circles on Carnage is laughable

Some examples then?

Your cautiousness over grit just smacks of Nimbyism

No, I'm being cautious because its different - hold erosion problems on grit are fairly limited to the odd problem venue or hold. At the most popular venues like Stanage there is only polish to contend with - still a problem but not one I think requires an aggressive solution. I haven't visited any grit that has been heavily poffed, I don't know what the results might be, and I don't like to make assumptions.

[Andy B]

Most of the damaged problems in the UK have only been popular for twenty years. If the rock can't handle even such a short period of use, well I think we need to be looking at this kind of treatment more widely and more pro-actively.

Treatment? Pof didn't start getting used as a treatment, it's used because it makes problems easier. There is a difference between carefully thought out and limited application of hold stabilisation and widespread use of pof. The OP isn't asking whether he should be stabilising holds, he's asking whether he should use pof to help his climbing.

I still maintain I haven't seen any holds in font that have been 'ruined' by pof in any way as badly as those that are damaged by erosion.

Just because erosion is a bad thing it doesn't make pof OK. That's like saying chipping is worse than tick marks, so tick marks might be OK. The two things aren't directly related, as Dave has pointed out, but you have ignored, there are plenty of areas in font where pof has been used but erosion is still an issue.

the damage to problems caused by pof amounts to some black circles on Carnage is laughable

Some examples then?

Are you serious!

There are tons of holds buffed to an unpleasant high sheen all over the forest, as well you know.

As well as this, if you visit any unpopular, obscure circuit in the forest, the signs of pof in the long term are far more evident than that of chalk.

Your cautiousness over grit just smacks of Nimbyism

No, I'm being cautious because its different - hold erosion problems on grit are fairly limited to the odd problem venue or hold. At the most popular venues like Stanage there is only polish to contend with - still a problem but not one I think requires an aggressive solution.

Well as far as your Stanage comments go, you are just plain wrong. The starting hold of captain Hook has gone from a rounded boss to a uniform, bright yellow crumbling sloper in the last year or two. The left hand crimp on Danny's has got significantly bigger in the last few years, there are regularly calls that the backs of the rails on Green Traverse and Brad Pit are getting dug out and enlarged. Even if it had been true there are plenty of other examples of erosion at other popular venues, some of which have been helped by stabilisation to a much greater degree than Vienna was.

You still haven't addressed Dave's points either.

or this:

As for you, of all people, accusing us of arrogance for questioning aspects of other peoples climbing! Well that's a peach!

[Simon Brown]

I've only used pof once or twice, but...

I think its pretty arrogant telling the old bleusards that they are wrong on this.

  They're not gods you know. The old Bleausards are, like us in the Peak, human. Like us they make mistakes.

For me pof is one of them. My daughter summed it up really well on her first trip "Why is that rude old woman varnishing the holds? That slippy stuff doesn't come off and it spoils your shoes."

I've never used pof, and never will. I've been delighted over the last few years to see it's use decline. Perhaps we can hope the next step is for chalk to be used with more discretion.

[fried]

 This is getting a bit off topic, and I don''t really like to get involved in this kind of divisive debate but...

I climb at Font on a weekly basis, I have done most of the low level circuits in the forest and I find the evidence for damaged rock caused by pof to be exaggerated. I have seen people credit damage to rock to pof that in my completely unscientific opinion is polish caused by generations of climbers. I also believe the level of damage is exaggerated by people as an excuse to misuse chalk.

I've never used pof and don't really understand why anyone would want to put sticky powder on holds, but sometimes when working a problem with a bleausard  they have dabbed a bit on. I've said nothing. This is generally a rare occurrence these days.