[Fultonius]

Have you tried a different bean blend,  darker is typically more bitter?

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[Gallant]

Medium-fine grind would be my suggestion, roughly what you'd use for an aeropress (just slightly more fine than for a v60/kalita wave), pack it in relatively well, so there's a level about a mil or two off the top, flatten gently rather than press down hard. And like the folks above state, once you hear it beginning to bubble over, give it a few seconds more until it's on the edge of being full flow, and remove from the heat. Residual heat / pressure do their stuff to send it over and you shouldn't be scorching the grounds. Take your time too, you could start from pre-warmed water if you don't want to wait as long, but heating excessively fast is pretty much a no go.

[Fultonius]

pack it in relatively well, so there's a level about a mil or two off the top, flatten gently rather than press down hard. And like the folks above state, once you hear it beginning to bubble over, give it a few seconds more until it's on the edge of being full flow, and remove from the heat.

I haven't used a stove top in years, but I was pretty sure that packing was discouraged as it's more likely to increase the resistance and therefore the temperature at which the water gets to before steam is made (i.e. the brew water will pass through the coffee at a higher temperature and higher temperature = more bitterness.)

Try to get to the grind of Lavazza Red (no joke, pretty spot on for stove tops...) Fill the basket, level off, no tamping. Medium flame (too low takes too long, to high makes it difficult to get it off the stove a the right time.

Basically, listen to your snob mate ;-)

[Fultonius]

P.S. I much prefer a cone filter to a stove top - for the reasons you give. (bitterness/burnt)

On that subject, Meunchener - I know you use a Hario. Do you often have pour over in a café?   I've had a few around glasgow and they are invariable waaay to lightly extracted for my taste. Basically watery, thin, no body.  It seems to be all the rage, but when I make it at home I go for a much richer, deeper flavour (finer grind I expect). To my taste it's much better and my favourite method of getting a nice big cuppa, which can make a nice change from an espresso.

My GF surprised me with a trip to the Edinburgh coffee festival a few weeks ago. The trend seems to be for super-fruity, high acidity espresso just now. Can't say I'm on board that bandwagon. I'm all for a slightly lighter roast to bring out some more subtle characteristics, but some of it was pretty undrinkable.

Surprisingly the most trendy/modernistic looking roaster, Round Square Coffee from Ayr, had an amazing blend - really complex blend of sweetness and just a touch of fruity acidity, with no bitterness, great body and mouthfeel. Try and grab a bag if you can.

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

you could start from pre-warmed water if you don't want to wait as long..

What I generally do with stove-tops.

I'm afraid, despite the pearls of wisdom people have offered, some stove-tops are poorly designed, and conduct heat too easily to the upper chamber, resulting in scorching of the coffee. I've tended to experience this with stainless STs rather than the moulded alloy ones, and a hunch I have, is that there can be a problem with the way the little cap is pressed onto the delivery tube, so that it chokes too easily.

The best stove-top I've used, was one with a porcelain top pot, which always seemed to produce a good brew - almost regardless of grind/heating etc.

That said, following some of the advice given ought to help; it may just not address the problem.

Good luck.

[galpinos]

The trend seems to be for super-fruity, high acidity espresso just now. Can't say I'm on board that bandwagon. I'm all for a slightly lighter roast to bring out some more subtle characteristics, but some of it was pretty undrinkable.

I totally agree and have had a similar conversation with erm, sam. It might make me a coffee philistine but the whole citric fruity coffee thing that seem to be happening at the moment doesn't do anything for me at all. 

[Muenchener]

On that subject, Meunchener - I know you use a Hario. Do you often have pour over in a café?   

No, never. And tbh at home I generally use pretty dark roasts too. Can't abide that barely-beige acidic hipster crap.

[SA Chris]

Can't abide that barely-beige acidic hipster crap.

I tend to avoid anyone's crap, regardless of colour or ph levels.

[shurt]

Really stove tops,  my 2p...

This is from memory and from the instructions I got with a Bialetti stove top I bought over 10 years ago,  never pack the coffee in,  just pour in and level off,  only use cold water,  never overfill with water there is usually a ring on the inside giving the correct level,  low heat.  Take off heat when it's just got going. 

The reason I remember this so well is because I did the total opposite!  Boiling water,  packing it in,  over  filling water etc.  I noticed an improvement after following instructions.  I'm currently back on stove top as machine is bust.

I agree with the lavazza red grind comment,  it's about spot on. 

[Fultonius]

The trend seems to be for super-fruity, high acidity espresso just now. Can't say I'm on board that bandwagon. I'm all for a slightly lighter roast to bring out some more subtle characteristics, but some of it was pretty undrinkable.

I totally agree and have had a similar conversation with erm, sam. It might make me a coffee philistine but the whole citric fruity coffee thing that seem to be happening at the moment doesn't do anything for me at all.

I wonder if it's some kind of overshoot - i.e. we've progressed from old school Italian roasts, and shot right past the "sweet spot". Maybe it'll bounce back towards the classic end? Who knows. 

[nash1]

Anyone tried this idea https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/tips-tricks-this-is-not-a-latte ?

I am wondering if it is worth it?

That chefsteps site is great, some really good ideas, and all of the recipes I have tried have been a winner

[Fiend]

That's too late, needs to be as soon as it's in full flow. The residual heat/pressure in the chamber should be enough to take care of the rest.

Okay so I tried this - keeping a close eye on it and taking it off when it was in full flow rather than bubbling and spluttering out of the top, along with a slightly coarser grind and not packing it down.

And what do you know, it worked, it definitely tastes better. Thanks guys 

[sidewinder]

And what do you know, it worked, it definitely tastes better.

It was bound to, expectation bias, more effort = must be better 

[Fultonius]

And what do you know, it worked, it definitely tastes better.

It was bound to, expectation bias, more effort = must be better 

Sorry fiend, no coffee improvement tick there- double blind placebo controlled randomised taste test required. Back around. 

[Fiend]

FFS slackbots, enough of that drivel 

[Fultonius]

[fuck I've been infiltrated]

Must have happened during my W10 upgrade.

[sidewinder]

Must have happened during my W10 upgrade.

With a new penguin logo?

[lagerstarfish]

Aldi have got some nice roasted beans from different sources in at the moment - they're on the aisle with the special buys and not with the rest of the coffee

can't find an internet link

[Fultonius]

Must have happened during my W10 upgrade.

With a new penguin logo?

Yeah,  the new penguin is nice,  I like it. Why did they change the name to Linux, strange name choice by Microsoft?

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[DAVETHOMAS90]

Really stove tops,  my 2p...

This is from memory and from the instructions I got with a Bialetti stove top I bought over 10 years ago,  never pack the coffee in,  just pour in and level off,  only use cold water,  never overfill with water there is usually a ring on the inside giving the correct level,  low heat.  Take off heat when it's just got going. 

The reason I remember this so well is because I did the total opposite!  Boiling water,  packing it in,  over  filling water etc.  I noticed an improvement after following instructions.  I'm currently back on stove top as machine is bust.

I agree with the lavazza red grind comment,  it's about spot on.

I appreciate this is a little late in the day on this particular point.

My point was that it isn't always down to "pilot error" - "we're doing something right/you're doing something wrong.." etc! There maybe a fault with the stove-top.

FWIW, I don't think anyone has suggested boiling water beforehand. I have one ST that I've never been able to use without the coffee tasting a little burnt. The cap and aperture at the top of the delivery tube seem too restrictive, and too much heat/preassure is needed to get the coffee to flow. It sometimes gets blocked. I've not had this problem with any of the traditional aluminium "Bialetti" type pots.

Fiend, if you were in Sheffield, I'd say borrow one of mine to see if you get the same problem. BTW what type of stove-top is it that you have?

Dave.

PS. Aldi are also selling a bumper pack of meatballs, if you're into that sort of thing:

https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/thu-29-oct/product-detail/ps/p/british-beef-meatballs-bumper-pack-2/

[Fiend]

PS. Aldi are also selling a bumper pack of meatballs, if you're into that sort of thing:

https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/thu-29-oct/product-detail/ps/p/british-beef-meatballs-bumper-pack-2/

For some reason that has me LOLing  kinda offtopic and in direct contravenance of the currently ferocious Diet thread....

I can't remember the make of my ST. I think it might be an alloy one? It's a hexagonal one so might be a Bialetti?

I think basically I've been making it wrong. I'd been packing in fine grounds and doing it on a fairly high heat to get the water pushed through as quickly as possible, like a proper espresso machine, which obviously it isn't! And I thought the coffee came out the top as bubbling spluttering steam, when I watched it today I could see it peacefully trickling out as a liquid before any spluttering started (when I took it off asap).

#noob #sticktonescafe etc etc.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Cool, job done 

 

[TobyD]

http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/10/the-case-for-bad-coffee.html

[Muenchener]

Burn the heretic! Burn!

[SA Chris]

Burn Roast the heretic! Roast Burn!