[SA Chris]

in real situations people more often just seethe internally rather than have a conversation.   

We are British after all. One shouldn't expect too much.

[youngy]

Very true. Kids also make nice soft landing zones...

You managed to find this out the hard way didnt u Andy, Throwing down the wrestling moves on the little one!

[Simon Brown]

Clearly persisting with consistently bad or risky behaviour is not on but nobody is perfect and learning sometimes requires stuff pointing out and explaining to both parents and kids. Whilst I try to get the boys to behave well they are not grown up so 100% consistent good behaviour and practice is unlikely. I don't want to breathe down their necks because I want to climb too and also let them have a bit of personal responsibility and freedom.
 

  Possibly the point here is whether or not one makes the effort, muggle, instructor or climbing parent. Certainly at the Foundry some are more, shall we say, attentive than others. A factor also seems to be whether the child has been raised with the expectation that they will behave mindfully (as far as they are capable) and that such mature, mindful behaviour has been rewarded and reinforced.

By the way, who got you answering your phone?

[slackline]

This was probably 5 years ago - I don't know if the sign was up then. The boys only weighed a couple of stone at that age. I probably could have safely belayed them going hand over hand. However, it was pointed out that it was setting a bad example which was a fair point I hadn't considered.

I was in Australia five years ago, so have no idea.

Maybe it was your instance that instigated its inclusion.

A major aspect of climbing is to be able to judge and assess risk yourself, as you had done, as it would have been exceptionally unlikely for you to have dropped them being so light and using a body belay.  Had you been outdoors it wouldn't have been an issue, but I guess they walls are understandably  covering their arses against litigation.

[Simon Brown]

A major aspect of climbing is to be able to judge and assess risk yourself, as you had done, as it would have been exceptionally unlikely for you to have dropped them being so light and using a body belay.  Had you been outdoors it wouldn't have been an issue, but I guess they walls are understandably  covering their arses against litigation.

 

Part of the issue comes down again to muggles. Simon is more than capable of balancing risks and capable of holding the boys on a body belay. Heck, he could probably hold me. Not sure he'd be too happy about it though; I learned to climb when body belaying was normal. A muggle who'd done the Adult Introductory Course that Foundry Indoor run so they can belay their child probably has neither the judgement(as this is experience based) or the skill. As far as I'm aware body belays aren't even mentioned on the course. And we learn by copying; body belaying is not as simple as it looks. When it all goes horribly wrong the probabilities for litigation are obvious and depressing.

[Muenchener]

I learned to climb when body belaying was normal.

Sticht plates were already normal by the time I started, although I quite often used a waist belay for mountaineering stuff if I only had a rope along for just in case / occasional use (e.g. Skye Ridge). These days I would use a munter hitch for that purpose.

However, I recently learned - can't remember where or who from - to use a variant "body belay" for comfortably holding a resting sport climber without a grigri: rope under the butt and round the wrist of the opposite hand, and (optional) sit on the rope. (Need to watch out for the climber un-weighting the rope without warning)

[rginns]

Not wanting to side-track this on a whole kids/no-kids debate but I really like seeing parents with their kids at walls (or out at the crag) having picnics, messing around, climbing and just generally having a boss time. I've always thought this was great, not just since I've had a nipper, and I can't really understand why anyone wouldn't like it?
I can appreciate that kids can be loud and even annoying. But so can boulderers/sport climbers/bumblies/adults/any member of the human race?
Of course if said kid is miserably following the parents round asking to go home then that's bad (unless it's my son, in which case it's character building).
Surely parents being willing to spend time and engage with their kids is a good thing?

having a wee one has changed my perspective somewhat, I can't wait to take the little one to the crag, as long as there are sufficient herders it's a great way of spending time together, although shark is right, it's good until they start burning you off I suppose...

[slackline]

having a wee one has changed my perspective somewhat

I can't imagine many parents not being accepting of kids being around.

[Muenchener]

as long as there are sufficient herders

That's crucial. Three adults and two kids is the minimum viable team size in my experience: one adult climbing & one belaying to set up top ropes and one keeping an eye on the kids - and able to intervene if they go anywhere they shouldn't, such as underneath boulderers, which the belayer can't - and at least two kids because the non-climbing time is boring and frustrating for a lone child.