[north_country_boy]

Famous Grouse/SS...same grade? both 7c or both 7b+?

[Andy B]

Try telling Dutch that.

[Andy B]

There used to be some crozzle on the lip so you couldn't get as many fingers in the good bit.

Since this only fits two fingers in the good bit now (middle two, with little finger on the edge, and index finger split and in front) did this used to be a mono? In which case didn't people used to prefer the deeper, comfier mono nearby, that some people still use in preference?

[Ru]

Don't think many people knew about the mono. Ask Keith Sharples - he can give you a detailed description of exactly how he held the hold before and after and how many fingers fit in the good bit. It's not as interesting as you might expect.

[T_B]

The hold on the Terrace has got a lot bigger in the last couple of years, so might even be nearer to 7b+ now.

Kudos is anti-morpho 8b.

Dick Williams 7b, yes.

I think Ben's Roof deserves 7c+. For me, it is much harder than PB. One of those that probably feels alright if you weigh 70Kg and have small fingers.

For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.

[dave]

Finally, someone talking sense.

[Ru]

The hold on the Terrace has got a lot bigger in the last couple of years, so might even be nearer to 7b+ now.

Kudos is anti-morpho 8b.

Dick Williams 7b, yes.

I think Ben's Roof deserves 7c+. For me, it is much harder than PB. One of those that probably feels alright if you weigh 70Kg and have small fingers.

For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.

BR is in at 7c+. Jasons is in at 7b+ but if 7c is reasonable it can go up.

[Jim]

famous grouse is definately 7c, ss is shit

[Bonjoy]

How’s about:
Green Man (Stanton) – up to 7c
River of Life – Does anyone actually think it’s 8a?
Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
True Git – up to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)
Back in YMCA – yes 7b+

[T_B]

Jasons is in at 7b+ but if 7c is reasonable it can go up.

It's not morpho in the same way that Brass Monkeys is (done both in the last couple of months). Even if you can reach the hold on JR relatively easily, there is a lot more to do to hold it/match, get your feet round and do the final move.

[T_B]

Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)

Really? If you think Mossatrocity is 7b+ you should get yerself up to Queen's Crag 

I'd be interested to know what the beta is on GP as judging by the number of capable folk not getting up it the day I was there, I would have thought 7b+ was pretty stout.

[a dense loner]

jasons is not in any way 7b+

[Bonjoy]

Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)

Really? If you think Mossatrocity is 7b+ you should get yerself up to Queen's Crag 

I'd be interested to know what the beta is on GP as judging by the number of capable folk not getting up it the day I was there, I would have thought 7b+ was pretty stout.

Deep drop knee on big hold out left, LH to break. I think Harry figured a non dropknee sequence off an even bigger heel-toe foothold even further left.
If you’re thinking of that snowy day, I know at least Bob was trying to do it with the arete start.

[Percy B]

I know GP is John Welfords problem, (so should get 7b+ as standard), but realistically this problem has never ever been 7b+. It wouldn't be 7b+ on the moon! Yes, there are a number of very complex sequences that might make it easier (for the start, and for the top) but even with all the knowledge and perfect nick, it ain't anything less than 7c as a minimum. The bottom isn't the hard bit, so all this drop-knee beta is superfluous - its the top bit that everyone I've been on it with has found hard.

[Paul B]

Mossatrosity – down to 7b+

Not convinced by this but then again my face is smushed against the rock hugging the fridge low!

[dave]

Mossatrosity – down to 7b+

Not convinced by this

Ditto, but then I ain't done it, felt 7cish to me, if bottom end. Similar to Famous Grouse in that respect.

[grimer]

I thought Dick Williams was as hard as West Side Story, which I did not using the pebble?

[Bonjoy]

Mossatrosity – down to 7b+

Not convinced by this but then again my face is smushed against the rock hugging the fridge low!

Grades for double prows will always be a procrustean (yes I’ve learnt a new word and I intend to use it) fit. At the end of the day aren’t probs supposed to be graded for the mythical averagely proportioned boulderer. Finding things harder/easier if you are bigger/smaller should be taken as a given.
Obviously this is problematic when something has never had an ascent by anyone close to these proportions and end up being given a grade which is meaningless to mr average (e.g. Opposition near Low Rider)Ho hum.

[uptown]

Agree with Terrace at 7c, Electrical storm at 7b and Green man at 7c.

[Andy B]

For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.

Is the 8a if you're short, based on a sequence for the short? Does anyone know of a sequence for those who can't do the reach?

It's not morpho in the same way that Brass Monkeys is (done both in the last couple of months). Even if you can reach the hold on JR relatively easily, there is a lot more to do to hold it/match, get your feet round and do the final move.

Jason's is way more morpho than Brass Monkeys. It is the most morpho problem that I have come across in the peak. Dave, king of milking the morpho, could run laps on this long before he was going other problems of a "similar" grade.

[tomtom]

Erm, trying to apply some SCIENCE to the issue...

To accomodate the apparent grade spread due to the morpho/strenght factors of certain problems why not use a voting system (like they have on yorkshiregrit.com or dare I say it on UKC..)? If you have enough data points, then you may get a mean and an idea of the spread? I'm not suggesting that the new guide should publish the mean/median and the SD  but it would seem the fairest way of establising the grade?? 

Or just use V-grades instead?? (ducks) 

[slackline]

Erm, trying to apply some SCIENCE to the issue...

To accomodate the apparent grade spread due to the morpho/strenght factors of certain problems why not use a voting system (like they have on yorkshiregrit.com or dare I say it on UKC..)? If you have enough data points, then you may get a mean and an idea of the spread? I'm not suggesting that the new guide should publish the mean/median and the SD  but it would seem the fairest way of establising the grade?? 

What a great idea, something like peakbouldering.info perhaps? 

[tomtom]

Precisely, Bobs yer Aunties brother..

[The Sausage]

Or just use V-grades instead?? (ducks) 

And this would solve what exactly?

[cofe]

let's get back on topic....

Mossatrocity killed my hamstring before I could do it a few years ago and I've avoided it since, but it felt stiff to me, and it's hardly my anti-style. It's on my list to finish this year, so I'll be able to comment more accurately if I bag it up.