[slackline]

Don't many companies, including "Adventures are Us" and The Foundry (to name a couple) already offer commercial climbing sessions at venues in the Peak District?



EDIT : Correcting poor grammar.

[Monk]

The difference I think is that this would be a commercial activity.

For the record, I am against the zipwire idea. It just doesn't seem to fit into my idea of 'good things to do in the Burbage Valley'.

However, arguments against are going to be pretty tricky to formulate. Loads of paying customers already use Burbage - kids groups 'weaseling', commercial groups top-roping etc. And the damage idea is also tricky to sell as a non-climber would only have to look at the ground erosion around the boulders and along the paths, and even the chalk marks to mount an argument that would sound reasonable to someone at the council. I'm not sure what the best argument is though. Would this prevent access to areas of open access land, for example? Is there a risk to people using the paths along the stream?

[gme]

Johnny

Surely a correctly managed accountable commercial set up would be less damageing than random groups of "to the max" wanabees turning up every weekend.

Plus the increase of climbers visiting the area (especially relating to bouldering at burbage which was a pretty lonely activity even in the mid nineties) is down to the commercial activities of the climbing world. ditto MTB and rambling.

Whilst we all love Graeme, Percy and Sam i dont think they built the Works for altruistic reasons. Likewise guidebook publishers and gear manufacturers.

[Johnny Brown]

Surely a correctly managed accountable commercial set up would be less damageing than random groups of "to the max" wanabees turning up every weekend.

No - a disasterous line of thought! How do you think non-climbers view us? Shouldn't we be managed for safety's sake?

However, arguments against are going to be pretty tricky to formulate. Loads of paying customers already use Burbage

I don't think its tricky at all. People pay to be guided around the natural environment - climbing, weaseling, biking whatever - no problem. Build something that does not exist naturally with the sole intention of attracting customers - problem. Not appropriate for a National Park, keep it to pub car parks.

Plus the increase of climbers visiting the area is down to the commercial activities of the climbing world.

Bouldering may have been a lonely activity in the nineties, climbing certainly wasn't. I don't believe overall numbers have changed at all. Although there may be the odd conflict, visitor numbers are not currently a problem at Burbage. This is partly self-regulated by the fact that most visitors are drawn to the site for a 'wilderness experience', and therefore naturally spread out and maintain fairly low densities. Again, a zip-line would be totally at odds with this.

[dave]

This whole zipline bullshit would be an utterly inappropriate use of a nation park and beauty spot. We have tottering worthless quarries for this kind of shit, haven't they ever heard of horseshoe?

[fried]

I don't usually comment on this kind of stuff 'cos I haven't been to Burbage in about 10 years. This is however a ridiculous idea. Burbage valley was one of my favourite places in the peak and the idea of building something in a national park seems ludicrous, surely there are plenty of placed to put a zip wire that aren't in a natural(ish) wilderness.

I agree that most commercial climbing groups are only using an existing resource and although this obviously causes problems, it isn't altering the landscape in the same way. Also bear in mind that these natural resources are not just for climbers, but also for walkers, picnickers, bird-spotters, mushroom pickers etc, why on earth would anyone want to encourage the noise/visual pollution that this will cause.

[SpanishJuan]

No, Yes, No.
Looks gash, so hopefully they won't run it for long

[SA Chris]

I don't think it's the commercial aspect that is the issue.

I think it's one of appropriate development. Part of the appeal for people visiting Burbage Valley (or indeed many of the crags in this country) for climbing, rambling, biking, running or whatever is the visual apeal and the tranquility. Ok you may have a few groups chatting loudly or the occasional shout, but that would be nothing compared to a bloody great cable being strung across the valley and the noise of the thing in operation plus large groups yelling it up and shouting. I think climbers or any other land users would agreee this would be intrusive and inappropriate to the area.

[nai]

Assuming it would be fixed in the position they were rigging it on a couple of days I was there then it would be a problem for everyone visiting BW.  I had to duck under it on my way out one afternoon and while it would obviously have to be higher for it to be used is there the potential for the path to be closed while they are operating?

It was immediately right of the nose too so is there also the potential for large groups waiting around in that area?

[cheque]

This whole zipline bullshit would be an utterly inappropriate use of a nation park and beauty spot. We have tottering worthless quarries for this kind of shit, haven't they ever heard of horseshoe?

Exactly. Zipline users aren't going to care that much about where it is, but we clearly do. It could be put in many of the uglier bits of the Peak that aren't being used for anything without upsetting anyone and actually make somewhere nicer.

[tomtom]

Great idea! Along with the Via Ferrata traverse along Stanage edge... no-one would mind that...

[lagerstarfish]

When I saw the ropes stretched across the valley, I hoped that they were going to haul up some huge scenic back drop of the Grand Canyon or a massive green screen for making The Princess Bride II Rise of The ROUSs
No such luck

[psychomansam]

no, yes, no

petition anyone?

[wiain]

Definately another no, yes, no.

  Slackers, it's a slightly pedantic point but The Foundry doesn't offer instruction to anyone, anywhere. It is franchised out.

[slackline]

Nothing wrong with pedantry. 

It demonstrated that national park resources are already used commercially (there is also Paragliding).

But I too still find the idea of rigging something like a zip-wire across Burbage as and when its required to be objectionable for the many reasons already pointed out (but not because its a commercial activity).

Can anyone find the application thats been submitted to the Council, I couldn't find it searching Sheffield Councils Planning Applications.  It might help clarify over the current speculation exactly what the application is for.

[chummer]

Totally agree with Johnny, it's a National Park not a fun park and it should be treated with a little more respect.

[a dense loner]

totally agree, how do we stop the shouting and swearing, and the ground erosion under the boulders, not to mention all the fag butts nx to established boulder problems, and get rid of all the unsightly white stuff? since obviously the main aim of a national park is to cater for climbers above all others

[SA Chris]

You sharing that Devil's Avocado with franco?

[Jim]

how do we stop the shouting and swearing, and the ground erosion under the boulders, not to mention all the fag butts nx to established boulder problems, and get rid of all the unsightly white stuff?

you trying to get me banned from burbage valley kes?

[a dense loner]

good lord no, i find the idea of a zipwire absolutely preposterous, up there with mengeles retraining as a plastic surgeon. just always amuses/amazes me when climbers think climbers are respectful of everything else
plus jim seems to have a renewed vigour for burbage nth, whats that about?

[Jim]

keen on a bit of snowballing is all.

[Palomides]

I don't think this is on. Simply because any structure of this size is too big to be installed in a National Park, even temporarily. It would have a disproportionately negative impact on all other user groups.

The visual pollution would be of a similar scale to the noise pollution if motorised vehicles were allowed down the Green track.

I don't have any problem with commercial groups or activities in the National Park - usually they're helping people get the most out of the outdoors (wtf is weaseling anyway???). But this is a dreadful idea and I'd think that if it was free.

Maybe somewhere else. Maybe.

[slackline]

wtf is weaseling anyway???

Urban dictionary definition of weaseling, but in this instance it refers to crawling around, in and amongst rocks, holes and gaps in rocks.

[Snoops]

I had some similar thoughts, but I think, as you say, that it's just an inappropriate place to do it.  Tis a toughy though if, as I do, you use burbage on a regular basis for both MBing and climbing..... 

John I was under the impression mountain biking is not allowed in the burbage valley...?

[john horscroft]

I had some similar thoughts, but I think, as you say, that it's just an inappropriate place to do it.  Tis a toughy though if, as I do, you use burbage on a regular basis for both MBing and climbing..... 

John I was under the impression mountain biking is not allowed in the burbage valley...?

   I heard from one of the rangers that the Peak Park have decided to treat the green drive as a de facto bridleway.  I've been riding it occasionally for about two years and I've had no problems.  But then I am exceedingly nice to walkers....