[stonemonkey]

I'm doing a uni paper at the moment into needs analysis' for top level bouldering and came across this paper, thought it may be of use to some people, it builds on a lot of reports from other people, however gives some good figures if you want to compare your own.


http://versita.metapress.com/content/v7r757274248v443/fulltext.pdf

[Richie Crouch]

Quite an interesting read. Thanks.

I'd love to take part in a study to find out body fat % and grip strength just out of pure curiosity to see how weak my grip is in comparison.

[Andy F]

Quite an interesting read. Thanks.

I'd love to take part in a study to find out body fat % and lank strength just out of pure curiosity to see how weak my footwork is in comparison.

[Richie Crouch]

the lank is strong at the moment... Just a shame I got let down by the minus 5 degree death winds blowing around the orme today.

Definitely too lanky to be any good at climbing from reading those stats 

[stonemonkey]

Rich im planning run myself through the test so i may be able to hold the equipment for a few days.

[Richie Crouch]

Give me a shout on here if you do!

[youngy]

Very interesting read! wish i would of done my dissertation on something useful like that

[biscuit]

Good read.

I can't get my head round how the sport specific testing exercise is done. Do they grip the hold and then 'sink down' whilst standing on scales ?

[Richie Crouch]

I thought that too. If your v weak on 2 finger pocket combos then you'll probably have a poor reading (of how much weight you can pull off the scales), so people who train or primarily spend a lot of time climbing on pockets would come out higher up on the scale. If full hand grip was used, then results may be closer - but then the issue arises of people taking all their body weight off the scales so you get no reading.

[Duma]

I picked this up too - surely a better solution would be to add enough additional weight to negate the possibility of anyone hanging the hold, then you could allow all 4 fingers? Or am I being dim?

[JohnM]

I once took part in a study where my grip strength was measured using some sort of pinch grip pressure recorder.  I then had to do a dyno of jugs with a choice of three foothold heights.  I would have thought that would too many other factors that would have had a bearing on the outcome rather than grip strength vs dyno ability though! 

I did another study where I was kept in isolation and visualised a a photo of 7b boulder problem while others were left to do what they liked in another part of the wall but not look at the problem.  They warmed up whilst I came out cold and got shut down on it.  The guy was trying to prove that prior visualisation improved performance but didn't take into account the benefit of a good warm up.  Very dubious!       

[stonemonkey]

I think for the purpose of the test the athletes were allowed to take grip on the edge they simply flex their legs thus taking weight off. I suppose the test would have been better on a mixture of holds however the issue with adding weight is you are now introducing another factor the alters the results. At least this way you are only using the climbers weight alone which is the most relevant when actually climbing.

[biscuit]

I know this wasn't your study so you may not have the answers but how can that make for an accurate sample across the climbers tested ?

Did they all have to crouch to the same degree ? I don't get how the test actually works. Surely those with stronger legs would do better as they could take more weiight.

Apologies if i am missing something obvious but if it works it'd be interesting to do on myself.

The good news is i am bang on for most of the morpho stats so i have the potential 

The bad news is i am 10% out on the body fat 

[jstrongman]

Biscuit 10% out on body fat, that is not bad news, just a great excuse for your current performance level also gives you a good future target only start worring if you get down to 6% body fat and your grades have not gone through the roof!! Just becareful not to loss too much muscle mass/strength on the way, that is the secret!!

[biscuit]

Biscuit 10% out on body fat, that is not bad news, just a great excuse for your current performance level also gives you a good future target only start worring if you get down to 6% body fat and your grades have not gone through the roof!! Just becareful not to loss too much muscle mass/strength on the way, that is the secret!!

 

[stonemonkey]

Biscuit 10% out on body fat, that is not bad news, just a great excuse for your current performance level also gives you a good future target only start worring if you get down to 6% body fat and your grades have not gone through the roof!! Just becareful not to loss too much muscle mass/strength on the way, that is the secret!!

I dont know if leg composition would help as it involves taking as much weight off the scales as possible with your two fingers. However it does highlight an area of the test that could do with improving!

[Paul B]

I picked this up too - surely a better solution would be to add enough additional weight to negate the possibility of anyone hanging the hold, then you could allow all 4 fingers? Or am I being dim?

the problem is you'd effectively need to know their 1 rep max straight away to do this otherwise getting there would have to be taken into account.

[Serpico]

I picked this up too - surely a better solution would be to add enough additional weight to negate the possibility of anyone hanging the hold, then you could allow all 4 fingers? Or am I being dim?

the problem is you'd effectively need to know their 1 rep max straight away to do this otherwise getting there would have to be taken into account.

There's normally a few warm-up goes to get recruitment up - if extra weight was needed it'd soon become apparent.
I think the 2finger specific strength test is the weakest part of this study, it would have been better to use a standard campus rung (and extra weight where necessary), then you'd have a format that could easily be replicated elsewhere.

[ghisino]

Surely those with stronger legs would do better as they could take more weiight.

and that would be measured by the scale...

try this at home :

-scale under the fingerboard. Stand on it
-pick an hold you can't hang off 1-armed
-slowly bend your legs to take weight off the scale (and on your hand!)

then subtract the smallest value you've read on the scale to your body weight at the moment (including clothes, shoes, etc)

for instance : i weight 66 kg in climbing wear.
say i manage to hand off the hold shown in the test with 33 kg on the scale.
my measurement would be : 66-33=33 kg.  So i can pull 31 kg on such a hold, aka 50% of my body weight.

got the picture?

btw, imho any hold choice would be "biased", even the campus rung (do we see ever boulder problems with wooden campus rungs???)

[Serpico]

for instance : i weight 66 kg in climbing wear.
say i manage to hand off the hold shown in the test with 33 kg on the scale.
my measurement would be : 66-33=33 kg.  So i can pull 31 kg on such a hold, aka 50% of my body weight.

I don't think your maths are going to help with Biscuit's confusion

btw, imho any hold choice would be "biased", even the campus rung (do we see ever boulder problems with wooden campus rungs???)

It's a basic edge, most people will use the same hand shape on it as they use on similar edges outside - it's a basic measure of isometric grip strength using a very common grip.

[biscuit]

Surely those with stronger legs would do better as they could take more weiight.

try this at home :

-scale under the fingerboard. Stand on it
-pick an hold you can't hang off 1-armed
-slowly bend your legs to take weight off the scale (and on your hand!)

Right so i was missing something obvious. Got it now - even with the dodgy maths

[uptown]

I clickied this as I thought it was a thread on 'Biscuit testing' - I'm good at that. 
It's not. 

[ghisino]

for instance : i weight 66 kg in climbing wear.
say i manage to hand off the hold shown in the test with 33 kg on the scale.
my measurement would be : 66-33=33 kg.  So i can pull 31 kg on such a hold, aka 50% of my body weight.

I don't think your maths are going to help with Biscuit's confusion

i always understate my fingerboard records, so i'll impress more outside