[calum]

Was out at stanage and decided to try some jamming cracks, having never actually done anything that required them  before.  Fell off a few times and felt very insecure on most of them, removed skin from the back of my hands etc, it was ace, can't wait to try again. 

However, the day after, my ankle felt a little sore.  It hurt walking about but wasn't bad.  Now I have similar pains in my wrists when rotating them from side to side, but it doesn't hurt when moving it up and down. 

I was using a lot of twisting force, in some cases kinda laybacking on them to get maximum leverage.


It it usual to hurt like this after jamming, and if not, how do I stop it?


Cheers

Calum

[butters]

Jamming is like any other climbing thing - the more you practice then the better you get at it but from reading what you have said you aren't putting enough belief into your jams and therefore they are slipping which will result in loss of skin.

This and this might help you along the way or it will put you off forever.

Tommy from off here will probably be along in a while to offer his advice as well - he does know what he is talking about but that's because he takes crack climbing to the level that would be classed as deviancy by any sane individual. 

[cheque]

Keep at it!

Everyone has the same initial experience but many don't persevere, which is most of what's needed to gain proficiency. As Butters says, all climbing has this 'feels wrong at first, becomes second nature' element, but jamming seems to have something about it that puts people off, probably the way you're required to abandon the idea of 'holding onto something'. Abandon it completely and you'll start to get the techniques.

A tip I found useful when I started hand-jamming was to let go of any idea of the fingers being used to make the jam work. It's all about the muscle at the bottom of your thumb and turning your hand into the crack: you always want to be turning your elbows outwards and/ or your knees inwards.

Johnny Dawes' film 'Best Forgotten Art' is a great aid in learning as it's almost all about jamming on grit. There are sequences on there that totally demystify the techniques required. At one point John Allen says "In the back of your mind you always know whether it's good enough to pull you through": wise words from a master, the memory of which have led me to make a crusial readjustment many a time.

A powerball is good for training the wrist-strength  required and for getting the endurance you'll need, too. If you can find some sort of heavy-ish object with a suitable hole or crevice in it (ie. a wooden stoll like this), you can test your technique by lifting it off the ground with a jam.

Disclaimer: I'm one of the least experienced climbers who posts on here. Someone else will have much more advanced advice.

[slackline]

Couple of good things to watch would be the crack section in Return2Sender (EDIT can't link a YouTube page as forum tries to embed it, just search around or buy the video) and as chequer recommends the all-time classic Best Forgotten Art.

If you're hands are slipping then you're not generating enough force.

Perceiver, if all else fails you can tape up get some hand jammies (but you'll still need to get the technique right!).

[calum]

Jamming is like any other climbing thing - the more you practice then the better you get at it but from reading what you have said you aren't putting enough belief into your jams and therefore they are slipping which will result in loss of skin.

This and this might help you along the way or it will put you off forever.

Tommy from off here will probably be along in a while to offer his advice as well - he does know what he is talking about but that's because he takes crack climbing to the level that would be classed as deviancy by any sane individual. 

I don't think you quite understood.  Yeah, I don't have much confidence in the jams and lost a bit of skin, but it wasn't much and my hands weren't slipping that much after the first few.  The problem is my wrists are hurting when moved, a pain that feels like it's right in the middle at the joint.


The article was really helpful for other jamming techniques I hadn't thought of, thanks.

[slackline]

Best advice for pain is to go and see a physiotherpaist, or more basically if it hurts, don't do it (but I understand that this wouldn't make sense if you're trying to improve at jamming).

Personally I've never experienced such pains in the wrist as a consequence of jamming.

[butters]

It might be down to your wrists being used in an orientation that they are unused to which is the cause of the sore wrists and I will hazard a guess that you were pulling on the jams pretty hard as well so you will be stressing the wrist joint through a wide range of movement.

That is about the best my non-medical brain can conjure up today but usual advice for these things is 1) don't trust butters when it comes to medical stuff and 2) to seek medical advice (bearing in mind part 1 of course) should it persist or something like that anyway. 

[chillax]

A friend of mine did something to his wrists on a trip to Indian Creek which sounds similar to what you're experiencing. Don't know the specifics, but don't think it took him too long to recover and he's currently firing on all cylinders (though avoiding cracks like the plague  ). Don't despair too much. As butters said, its probably a case of torqueing your hands too much due to being unused to pulling on them in a vertical orientation. Jamming isn't exactly the most intuitive of techniques!

[cheque]

The problem is my wrists are hurting when moved, a pain that feels like it's right in the middle at the joint.

I used to get pain like this. It was 'cos my wrists were too weak and skinny. I also broke one of them when I was twelve and did no rehab whatsoever. To strengthen them I started off with wrist curls with a 1 litre bottle of water (1kg) and moved onto a powerball. The latter worked a treat (recommended for rehab from wrist injuries) and I've had no problem since.

It might be that your pain has a totally different cause, though, in which case ignore me. 

[rginns]

Was out at stanage and decided to try some jamming cracks, having never actually done anything that required them  before.  Fell off a few times and felt very insecure on most of them, removed skin from the back of my hands etc, it was ace, can't wait to try again. 
However, the day after, my ankle felt a little sore.  It hurt walking about but wasn't bad.  Now I have similar pains in my wrists when rotating them from side to side, but it doesn't hurt when moving it up and down. 
I was using a lot of twisting force, in some cases kinda laybacking on them to get maximum leverage.
It it usual to hurt like this after jamming, and if not, how do I stop it?
Calum

I've always liked jamming, for me it's one of the most secure techniques, but It's never hurt in the way you describe...
it could be that you're not getting enough purchase when you jam, but it'll come with practice. You may have just aggravated the intra muscular tendons/tissue - I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as it goes away in the next couple of days.

make sure you get enough skin to rock contact and really brace your hand tight - if it's loose it'll slip, which hurts... other than that, you'll start to feel when they're solid and when they're not.

Enjoy the jamming!

[GCW]

Enjoy the jamming!

Uurrghh, an oxymoron if there ever was one   

[Tommy]

Few bits of advice - the other people on here have all said very wise and useful things!

1. Take the pain, then ask for some more. You may grow to like it.... 
2. Learn to jam on boulder problems. I wish I had done this earlier on. It's a way better learning curve
3. Experiment with thumbs-up jamming and thumbs down - understanding the efficiency of different body positions and length of moves associated with this will really help!

Finally..... rule of thumb: 1 mile climbed at any crack width means you're done. Before that, you're just a rookie 

Good luck and buy some antiseptic cream.

[butters]

Finally..... rule of thumb: 1 mile climbed at any crack width means you're done. Before that, you're just a rookie 

As I said he's a deviant when it comes to cracks.... 

[Fiend]

Yes.

Rule of thumb:

1. For hand jams, USE YOUR THUMB, it's all about sliding your hand in flat and clenching your thumb into your palm, so the expansive force is generated between the clenched thumb muscle and the back of your hand, not your fingers.
2. Seriously.
3. USE YOUR BLOODY THUMB.
4. See 1.
5. See 1.
6 - 10. See 3.

[duncan]

It took me about 6 months of climbing on grit before I felt somewhat at home with jamming. 

Expanding on what Tommy said, if I wanted to speed up that process I would do laps on Dog-Leg Crack, Curbar (should be fine with just a mat). 

Practice thumbs-up, thumbs-down, shuffling hands (one hand always above the other), alternating hands, little reaches between jams, big reaches, climbing up and down.  Try every conceivable combination of the above (some wont work: big reach off thumbs-down jam).  See how little effort you can get away with before your hand starts to slip.  Wear comfy shoes (toes should be straight, not curled).  Tape up until you get the hang of things.

Repeat the procedure on 20 Foot Crack, The File and Dexterity (TR the latter two).

Tommy's jamming boulder problem list from elsewhere:

20 ft Crack (Burbage)
Great Slab Roof Crack (Froggatt)
The Abyss (Rowtor)
Look at Me (Cratcliff/RHS)
Definitive 5.12 (Burbage)
Jam and Blast It (Rowtor)
Definitive 5.11 (Burbage)
The Kursk (Burbage)
Savage Me Softly (Cowper)
Jackaloupe (Moorside)
Picalli's Pickle (Robin Hood's Stride)
Zippatrocity (Cowper)
Melvyn Bragg (Ramshaw)
Scandalous (Froggatt)
Bob Marley Extension (Cowper) 

[slackline]

You can add to that list The Real 20ft Crack at Stanage (much better than the 20t Crack at Burbage North with far, far less polish).

[SA Chris]

Your wrists and ankles will hurt a bit as it's not something you are used to.

I find an important aspect of jamming is to be positive about it believe the jams will hold you, keep moving rather than hanging about trying to get the jam 100% perfect and,  if you can, and avoid placing gear until you reach a point where it is comfortable to do so, rather than midway up a strenuous jamming section and get gear in.

Jamming your feet well is every bit as important as your hands, tape your ankles if necessary.

[Tommy]

Yes.

Rule of thumb:

1. For hand jams, USE YOUR THUMB, it's all about sliding your hand in flat and clenching your thumb into your palm, so the expansive force is generated between the clenched thumb muscle and the back of your hand, not your fingers.
2. Seriously.
3. USE YOUR BLOODY THUMB.
4. See 1.
5. See 1.
6 - 10. See 3.

Second this one!! Get that thumb in!