[Nigel]

I know there are plenty of knee experts out there, so I’m hoping you can help! In keeping with my usual programme of only leaving the wall once I’ve reached the point of injury, last night at The Works I stuffed my left knee. Details:

•   I was doing a move in an overhang where most of my weight was on my left heel. This was in a kind of “frogged” position i.e. toe rotated out behind me, actually pointing at floor. Kind of a similar but more out-turned version of the way you heel-hook on Brad Pit.
•   I felt a “popping” sensation in the outside of my knee, so immediately dropped off. There was no pain.
•   I didn’t try the problem again, but I did climb sporadically for about another 45 mins. I didn’t notice any problems with it at all. However it must be said I didn’t take any falls, or do anymore left leg heel-hooking.
•   It was only 3 hours later on the stairs up to bed that I realised knee was sore. Got worse during night, can barely walk this morning!
•   Pain is very localised, it is very sore to press on the bony bit on the outside of my knee. I also struggle to lift my leg behind me (i.e. get heel to touch arse). Walking is a bit sore, going up stairs normally is worse.

Any ideas? I’ve never injured a knee before (surprisingly for me) so haven’t got a clue. Thanks in advance.

[Johnny Brown]

I think my torn cartilage started in a similar way to that, doing a deep rock with my foot trapped behind a bolt-on jug. Fuckin walls. It improved fairly quickly, but then started locking up a few months later. That was the inside of the knee though. It didn't have a huge effect on my climbing though I was wary of deep rockovers for a long time (worse on big holds than small), and had to be careful when jumping off.

Whether you've done somthing similar or not, I'd think about doing some cycling to build up knee strength. The nice thing about cycling is a limited range of movement and no impacts.

[Adam Lincoln]

I'd think about doing some cycling to build up knee strength.

I had problems with my right knee. Something would pop out, and usually go straight back in again. If it didn't, my leg would remain locked, until i bent it, and it would click back into position. Wouldn't hurt when i did it, and could carry on climbing, but the next day it was always very sore. Two days later it was back to normal. I never saw a doctor, but a physio said to do lots of squats, to strengthen it. (As Johnny has said)

[cofe]

Sounds similar to what I did, albeit outside. I damaged the hamstring where it connects down by the outside of the knee on heelhooks. Murder to walk up and particularly down stairs. Saw a sports physio in woodseats and did plenty of cycling - both these things sorted it out after a number of months.

[GCW]

Could be a couple of things.
Did it swell up?  If not, it's less likely to be something in the joint.
Biceps femoris, maybe?

You can guess my advice.  Good luck though.

[gardinrm]

I have a knee injury on my right knee that sounds a bit similar. I reckon there are 2 things that could have happened. The ligaments on the outside of the knee might have had a twinge, sort of like cracking a knuckle. This can be really painful and cause swelling, often tearing the ligaments slightly. Or, you might have damaged the cartilage in the knee like i did. Often this isn't a long term problem, just rest and then it gets better. Also, i agree with the above about low impact exercise. Climbing without big falls, cycling and swimming?
If it doesn't improve, go see doctor. I waited and it didn't get better, just me miserably not able to play football.
Hope it gets better soon! Good luck.

[duncan]

You've clearly suffered an IDK (*Internal Derangement of the Knee), that is, advice as per GCW.

Hope it sorts itself out.

*may have alternative meaning

[Iesu]

I'm on the road to recovery (i think) after having an arthroscopy and chondroplasty on my MFC in left knee. My advice would be go seek medical help soon, and don't allow yourself to be fobeed off (as I was). It's taken 2 years from first noticing a problem to surgery, with progressively worsening symptoms. Hopefully now it's going to heal and I'll be back...

Good luck with yours however it turns out - good advice from a past Yoga instructor "look after your knees, they're the only pair you've got".

or to put it another way, from a 90's (?) pop hit "you'll miss them when they're gone..."!

[The Sausage]

Hi Nige,
How's it feeling now? Has it swollen at all? Are there any really tender spots? Ignore everything that begins "i hurt my knee once and..."
As you're a couple of days down the line, do you feel it is getting better?
What things, specifically, cause it to hurt? If you stand heel to toe (bad leg in front) and pull back the heel of the affected leg against the toe of the other leg, does that hurt? If so, it is likely to be hamstring insertion. Gentle stretching, avoiding heel hooks and cycling/walking within limits of comfort can help.

Does it hurt if you squat right down and try and stand up? (both legs? just the affected leg?) - this may indicate some cartilage (meniscus) damage. Not much you can do for this, but cycling can help improve synovial circulation.

The other thing it could be is the lateral collateral ligament - unlikely, but you never know. Push out sideways with the outside of your ankle against a table leg - does it hurt?

In terms of management, the first thing to say is, if it's getting worse, hampering you walking or just reasonably painful, get it checked out. I can have a look at the wedding saturday if you like. If it's getting better, basically ice, rest and avoiding painful positions. If it's muscular/tendinous, some gentle stretching (within comfort) and loading will help to decrease scar tissue build up.

And a general message to everybody: AVOID TURNED OUT HEEL HOOKS/ROCKOVERS INDOORS - it's probably the WORST thing for your knee and it's JUST NOT WORTH IT!

[Nigel]

Hey all, thanks for your input. After reading the earlier replies I went to the Walk In, the nurse there ragged my leg about and came to the conclusion that there was nothing (seriously) wrong with it, which is something of a comfort I suppose!

Joe, there was and is no obvious swelling, just a soreness to walk and to press on the outside of my knee, towards the back. Both of these symptoms have improved a fair bit over yesterday. I did your tests and experienced some soreness with pushing my ankle on a table leg, plus a bit when fully squatted down (rest of ROM feels OK, other leg was fine throughout). Heel to toe hamstring one felt fine to be honest. Guess I will just ice and rest for time being, and hope its just a (lateral?) ligament strain which will get better of its own accord.

I echo you're sentiments about the turned out heelhooks/rockovers. Another style for me to avoid at the wall, soon I'll just be holding positions with Dense...

[GCW]

soon I'll just be holding positions with Dense...

Bit like this?

[The Sausage]

Me again. With the mecanism of injury and location of the pain, it sounds like it's most likely cartilage. These things either get better (slowly) or worse. The only thing for it if it gets worse is keyhole surgery to shave away the affected bit. As before, avoid painful positions, plus gentle walking/cycling can help.

There may be some element of lateral collateral ligament damage too, but it doesn't alter the management. Probably avoid sitting cross-legged or getting tackled by burly rugby players...