[petejh]

Coming to this late but I'm dead against dropping the fit birds thread, it's one of the many trivial little things which makes this place what it is and differentiates it from the dire, heavily commercial, lack of free spirit that is ukc. Even if I don't look at the thread much (see what I did there) I like that it exists and that some commercially-correct pole-smoker hasn't shut it down.
Just keep it respectful, zap any stupid shit and all is good no? Women do happen to be beautiful to look at on top of their other good qualities and men are pretty basic on the surface, doesn't need any brow-beating about it.
Call it awesome ladies or something else sweet if it makes someone out there less tense.
You've already been shown to have done the right thing by taking the time and effort to find out other people's views and from these it seems that there's no strong case for it needing to be pulled. The only reason for pulling it must be commercial. How about widening your scope of potential sponsors? Forget North Face or whoever and go outside the box. The target audience on here must be interested in a whole load more than just climbing/biking related shit (not sure you can advertise weed&beer, maybe).

[Serpico]

So it's settled then - DFBWGC stays, we just have to moderate our comments:

[petejh]

  Ah right going back a page I see it's staying then. I'll fuck off again now.

[Serpico]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=427227

Countdown to deletion
10... 9... 8...

...0

[csurfleet]

Hahahahahaha! Silenced.

[rich d]

That thread I started lasted longer than I expected. Presumed it'd been deleted minutes after I put it up.

[GCW]

UKC has zapped the thread now.

Too close to home and too near the bone?  More than you'll ever know ...
Kick them when they fall down
Kick them when they fall down
You kick them when they fall down

[SA Chris]

Contemptuous.

[Falling Down]

Just deleted my profile, photo's etc.  I've previously adopted something of a fustrated don't-know-the-full-story when confronted with excessive censorship and deletion of threads and have complained about it to the UKC mods and owners in the past but remained within the fence as (hopefully) a limited voice of reason. 

However, when I see and reflect on what has happened I have had no choice but to disengage completely.

[GCW]

I deleted GCW a while ago, especially after my exchanges with Mr Ryan.

[Iesu]

I deleted GCW a while ago, especially after my exchanges with Mr Ryan.

apparently you can't actually delete a user profile? I tried and sent them an email telling them why. the response is below, funny that they actually think I'm a "valued contributor" when I hadn't logged on for over 12 months before i did to try and delete my account!:

Hi Jesse Iesu

I am sorry to hear this. Please at least read the rest of this email to get a better impression of what happened rather than the misleading picture Simon Lee has presented.

We have sent several emails to Simon and Toby since they owned the site requesting them to remove abusive comments directed at Mick Ryan and myself (although mostly Mick being called a cunt repeatedly). Our reasoning is simply that we wouldn't tolerate anyone being treated like that on UKC and if they want to move in the same advertising market as we do then they should not allow such vile abusive language about  Mick to stay in place. This could be especially significant if they are talking to the same advertising contacts who could well come across these nasty characterisations when browsing UKB. They have refused to remove the vile posts although they have generally sidelined developing threads and made some effort to reduce the visibility and stop it getting out of control.

The incident in question on the recent thread was when Bubba was posting again asking someone to punch Mick at the Stoney weekend. Mick quite rightly asked this to be removed (which it was) and copied in Nikki who works for Pod since he knew she had started advertising and also knew that she was probably not fully aware of the nature of the language and posting on UKB. This was not a UKC policy decision, it was Mick responding to someone threatening violence against him on UKB.

I am not sure exactly what happened next but I know Nikki was particularly upset about the DFBWGC thread that she found and was certainly happy that she had been prompted to look closer; any subsequent action was entirely hers. I believe she asked for Pod Sacs advertising to be pulled. We have had no more interaction with her.

So you can see that the only changes we are requesting are that they make some effort to remove the vile and abusive language about Mick Ryan - that's it, nothing else. This has consisted of a bunch of emails earlier in the year -  maybe 2 sets of exchanges - and the latest incident. We haven't asked them to do anything else and haven't tried to influence them in any other way and further more, we wouldn't want to ever do that. So far they haven't complied and the posts and language are still there. As yet neither of them has offered an answer to the scenario I posed asking them how they would react if there were many threads dotted all over UKC, and being added to on a weekly basis, that contained the phrase "Toby/Simon is a cunt" or "would someone punch Simon Lee for me please". Please substitute your own name into those sentences and then ask yourself how unreasonable our request is.

Lately we have pretty much dropped the matter since I agree that stirring it up is likely to add fuel to the fire but I fully support Mick in his actions in this case to stop more abusive and threatening stuff being posted.

Please reconsider your decision since I am keen not to have valued contributors to UKC to be put off visiting because of misapprehensions spread by SImon's lazy reporting.

Regards

Alan
_________
Alan James, Director
UKClimbing - http://www.ukclimbing.com
Rockfax - http://www.rockfax.com
[\quote]

ps I love the fact that his title is "Director"

Summary of my response was "Mick should just grow a pair, I learned to deal with shit being talked about me behind my back in High School FFS"

[Stubbs]

So it looks like this is another case of Mick's personal actions, vs Mick's actions in his official capacity as 'Senior Editor' at UKC.  Simon/Toby, did the original email come from Mick's UKC address, or from a private one?

[Serpico]

Hi Jesse Iesu


So you can see that the only changes we are requesting are that they make some effort to remove the vile and abusive language about Mick Ryan - that's it, nothing else.

Having seen the original email I know this to be untrue.
Sorry Simon I know you're keen for this to just blow over.

[Falling Down]

My view on this is that these exchanges should probably be kept off the public boards and that they create headaches for Toby, Simon and people at UKC if they are made public. 

I also think that UKB users should refrain from posting publicly abusive messages directed at specific individuals as that also creates difficulties. 

Just my two penneth 

[slackline]

Hi Jesse Iesu

I am sorry to hear this. Please at least read the rest of this email to get a better impression of what happened rather than the misleading picture Simon Lee has presented.

We have sent several emails to Simon and Toby since they owned the site requesting them to remove abusive comments directed at Mick Ryan and myself (although mostly Mick being called a cunt repeatedly). Our reasoning is simply that we wouldn't tolerate anyone being treated like that on UKC and if they want to move in the same advertising market as we do then they should not allow such vile abusive language about  Mick to stay in place. This could be especially significant if they are talking to the same advertising contacts who could well come across these nasty characterisations when browsing UKB. They have refused to remove the vile posts although they have generally sidelined developing threads and made some effort to reduce the visibility and stop it getting out of control.

The incident in question on the recent thread was when Bubba was posting again asking someone to punch Mick at the Stoney weekend. Mick quite rightly asked this to be removed (which it was) and copied in Nikki who works for Pod since he knew she had started advertising and also knew that she was probably not fully aware of the nature of the language and posting on UKB. This was not a UKC policy decision, it was Mick responding to someone threatening violence against him on UKB.

I am not sure exactly what happened next but I know Nikki was particularly upset about the DFBWGC thread that she found and was certainly happy that she had been prompted to look closer; any subsequent action was entirely hers. I believe she asked for Pod Sacs advertising to be pulled. We have had no more interaction with her.

So you can see that the only changes we are requesting are that they make some effort to remove the vile and abusive language about Mick Ryan - that's it, nothing else. This has consisted of a bunch of emails earlier in the year -  maybe 2 sets of exchanges - and the latest incident. We haven't asked them to do anything else and haven't tried to influence them in any other way and further more, we wouldn't want to ever do that. So far they haven't complied and the posts and language are still there. As yet neither of them has offered an answer to the scenario I posed asking them how they would react if there were many threads dotted all over UKC, and being added to on a weekly basis, that contained the phrase "Toby/Simon is a cunt" or "would someone punch Simon Lee for me please". Please substitute your own name into those sentences and then ask yourself how unreasonable our request is.

Lately we have pretty much dropped the matter since I agree that stirring it up is likely to add fuel to the fire but I fully support Mick in his actions in this case to stop more abusive and threatening stuff being posted.

Please reconsider your decision since I am keen not to have valued contributors to UKC to be put off visiting because of misapprehensions spread by SImon's lazy reporting.

Regards

Alan
_________
Alan James, Director
UKClimbing - http://www.ukclimbing.com
Rockfax - http://www.rockfax.com

Either you do or you don't try and influence another site.

It should have been done as a person and not as a representative of UKC, because the posts were about an individual and not about UKC.  It just happens that the person in question works for/is heavily involved with the running of UKC, but to use that hat is inappropriate.

If Mick is/was genuinely concerned for his safety in light of Bubba's comment then he should perhaps have contacted South Yorkshire Police the CPS as they take threats very seriously even though they are wrong to do so (note that it was clear in that instance as it is in this that it was a joke and wasn't going to transpire in reality, so get a fucking grip Mick/Alan!)

[GCW]

I didn't delete my account, I just removed all my photos, ticklish, profile.

EDIT. can't be arsed getting embroiled in the Mick bullshit again.

[slackline]

We have already been asked to delete the correspondence that Iesu has posted. Frankly it is a tough call whether to comply with that or whether we need to publish everything we have received in connection with this ...

Someone most have plenty of time on their hands if they can monitor two sets of forums.

[butters]

I was off the opinion that it should just die a death until I read this:

The incident in question on the recent thread was when Bubba was posting again asking someone to punch Mick at the Stoney weekend. Mick quite rightly asked this to be removed (which it was) and copied in Nikki who works for Pod since he knew she had started advertising and also knew that she was probably not fully aware of the nature of the language and posting on UKB . This was not a UKC policy decision, it was Mick responding to someone threatening violence against him on UKB.

As far as I am concerned it was out of order to cc someone else into what was a private request - I can see no motive other than spite to cc someone in - having worked in an office long enough it doesn't surprise me at all to see it done but then neither does it condone the action.

As for someone advertising on a board without ever checking out the site in the first instance... 

[Paul B]

We have already been asked to delete the correspondence that Iesu has posted. Frankly it is a tough call whether to comply with that or whether we need to publish everything we have received in connection with this ...

Why on earth would there be any need to delete that?  I rarely go on UKC these days anyway but I'm of a similar mind.

They have refused to remove the vile posts although they have generally sidelined developing threads and made some effort to reduce the visibility and stop it getting out of control

Recently (since the arrival of the IO) the number of 'vile' posts has been very minimal. I'm surprised that isn't improving relations between the two sites.

I have to say I find it pretty disapointing for a POD representative to pull their advertising. If you look back through many of the threads on this site, UKB champions their products (as well as Moon). This forum has its tongue firmly stuck in cheek most of the time. I guess that narrows it down to Moon from now on.

As for someone advertising on a board without ever checking out the site in the first instance... 

Exactly.

[Fiend]

As yet neither of them has offered an answer to the scenario I posed asking them how they would react if there were many threads dotted all over UKC, and being added to on a weekly basis, that contained the phrase "Toby/Simon is a cunt" or "would someone punch Simon Lee for me please". Please substitute your own name into those sentences and then ask yourself how unreasonable our request is.

Been there, done that!!!!

I think Alan's request is reasonable. The problem is with Mick who has tried to walk a very fine line between holding a "professional" UKC role and putting forward his own personality and politicis - and failed to do so. Maybe in an ideal world everyone's slate would be wiped clean and there would be a fresh start and see how people behave from there...

[SA Chris]

As far as I am concerned it was out of order to cc someone else into what was a private request - I can see no motive other than spite to cc someone in - having worked in an office long enough it doesn't surprise me at all to see it done but then neither does it condone the action.

Exactly. I wonder what P o D himself would make this PC kneejerk reaction.

PoD as a company has just gone down in my estimation, and Mick has gone down even further than he was. What an embarrarrasing mess.

[slackline]

As far as I am concerned it was out of order to cc someone else into what was a private request - I can see no motive other than spite to cc someone in - having worked in an office long enough it doesn't surprise me at all to see it done but then neither does it condone the action.

Exactly.

 

[chris_j_s]

We have already been asked to delete the correspondence that Iesu has posted. Frankly it is a tough call whether to comply with that or whether we need to publish everything we have received in connection with this ...

As far as I can see UKC have shown a gobsmacking lack of professionalism towards you by underhandedly involving your advertisers in a private matter, so I don't see why you should respect their request to remove these posts.

I think you're behaving expectionally well considering they have actually lost you advertising income. I can't imagine Mick being so level headed if the situation were reversed...

[gremlin]

 

Come you lot, this DFBWGC - start posting some T and A :-)

Off course, as soon as I hit "Post" I realised that this is the "poll:DFBWGC".

Can I punter myself? :-)

[GCW]

No, but we can.