I agree Andy. I've not visited Carn Vellan, and I'm not really that into sport climbing, but I have seen the photos of chopped bolts and they were a total disgrace. Anything that will clear that awful mess up is welcome in my view. From what I gathered most people in the SW (and beyond) seemed to support the notion of CV being a sport crag, although the issue of bolts being placed elsewhere seemed a bit more contentious. Are you proposing to do the clear-up/ rebolting yourself?
I've proposed that the original bolted lines be re equipped and the mess left by the bolt choppers repaired. Nothing more nothing less. I haven't really said anything other than that their should be a debate.
Quote from: Andy W on August 05, 2010, 02:32:00 pmI've proposed that the original bolted lines be re equipped and the mess left by the bolt choppers repaired. Nothing more nothing less. I haven't really said anything other than that their should be a debate. I'm with you Andy - CV is pretty much an anomaly and as such should be viewed very differently to the traditional coastal crags. The (blatant alleged) actions of uncle Mark aren't helping the cause. I guess next time there is an area meet those of us living on the SW peninsular should pull our fingers out, turn up and make our votes count against them city folk. From what I understand the most recent vote was very close and if more of us 'locals' (the majority of whom agree with you) had turned up it could have swung the other way. It is a shame that with strong feelings the choppers didn't consider the damage they were inflicting on the rock that they'd claim to be protecting YoursM G Edwards
I've always supported this venue as a sport route, but don't hold out too much hope of progress on this issue. The problem in my mind is that there's no chance of local climbers viewing the establishment of Carn Vellan as an issue in isolation. The climbers who took the bolts out originally have for too long intimately connected the bolting of Carn Vellan with the actions of Mark and Rowland Edwards and simply can't dissociate the two issues any more. When you add this to the general strong feeling against bolts in Cornwall anyway I can't help feel that, even if a BMC area meeting gave it's blessing to such action, the bolts would be quickly vandalised again.
CV is pretty much an anomaly and as such should be viewed very differently to the traditional coastal crags.
Quote from: granticus on August 06, 2010, 07:57:32 amCV is pretty much an anomaly and as such should be viewed very differently to the traditional coastal crags. Why do you think this? I understand the reasoning (big, steep killas) in terming it an "anomaly"; I don't understand why this means it ought be treated differently to the nearby granite/less steep cliffs. The obvious counter to your statement is that the "anomaly" should mean that it is protected from being bolted. And in all seriousness, what would bolting this small cliff achieve? Unlikely to be anything less than high 7s, in a something of a backwater that, save for the actions of a few, is staunchly "trad". Tiny numbers of local climbers, most of whom won't climb at the level required by these routes. A new 8b for the beasts on here to climb? Dave Mac for one has the abilities to consider climbing some of the lines on natural pro. Monster Munch was given 8b+: if this was climbed/graded correctly that's 2 or 3 grades easier than he regards Echo wall. Rewind was given what as a sport route (formerly called Blue Sky Lightning)? 1025 was claimed at 7c. None of these routes, if bolted, would even get close to offering envelope-pushing standards. Comparisons with Malham etc are silly: what Carn Vellan could provide is really what should be being asked. edit I've read the minutes Andy linked to: good points made by Stu Littlefair & Ken P, but neither are very compelling. I think historical precedent shows once bolts are in that is unlikely, though by no means impossible or would be unique, that a keen young gun will chop them in order to climb them on pro.
As I wrote earlier in the thread above, the really perverse thing about Carn Vellan is that policy has been effectively set by Bristol climbers, who seem more than happy to have plenty of sport climbing available locally to them (the other end of Brean, much of Cheddar, sundry Wye Valley stuff, etc), yet get very uptight about cliffs 200 miles away ...
"bolts are allowed in quarries but not gritstone or sandstone quarries, unless they have been there for a very long time ... "
This means that climbers will not find bolts on mountain cliffs or the majority of outcrop crags or sea cliffs
Good luck with this. Judging from the 2005 experience, perhaps the key tactic for the 2nd October would be to set up a road block on the M5 around, say, Taunton, to ensure only local locals get to vote?
Where are the easy sport routes going to be?Quote from: thesiger on September 23, 2010, 06:11:59 amGood luck with this. Judging from the 2005 experience, perhaps the key tactic for the 2nd October would be to set up a road block on the M5 around, say, Taunton, to ensure only local locals get to vote?Remember that several Bristol climbers also showed support for the bolts.Besides, where are the easy sport routes going to be?
