[jdal]

Not a new crag, obviously. It's been there since the ice age and it's been visited by all and sundry over the years, but Simon Lichfield and Graeme Read have been working it and produced a nice guide  . http://geoquest-verlag.de/sites/default/files/Lower_Tosson_Guidebook.pdf.

There is loads of opportunity for new problems for those who can actually walk uphill. And it's home to Northumberlands biggest roof with an unclimbed roof crack all the way through it.

[punkpunk]

more interesting is the unclimbed 8aish prow

[Tommy]

Hellloooo.... unclimbed roof crack? 

Fingers I'm guessing? How wide is the horizontal part?

[jdal]

Hellloooo.... unclimbed roof crack? 

Fingers I'm guessing? How wide is the horizontal part?

Don't ask the messenger.

I'll relay this sudden burst of interest to the culprits, maybe they'll join in. It'd have been more likely if I'd spelled Litchfield properly 

[Fiend]

What about those who can't walk uphill??

Good on the developers, but I'll be interested to know how this is going to stay clean and in a climbable condition when established crags like Ravensheugh and South Yardhope have reverted back being covered in lichen...

[punkpunk]

Hellloooo.... unclimbed roof crack? 

each to his own i guess 

[jdal]

What about those who can't walk uphill??

Good on the developers, but I'll be interested to know how this is going to cclean and in a climbable condition when established crags like Ravensheugh and South Yardhope have reverted back being covered in lichen...

errr.. why should it stay clean Crags like this won't stay clean, as you've noticed. This one, and the other two you quoted, have some fucking good stuff on perfect rock in beautiful places. They need a bit of effort to get there and then get your chosen few feet of rock clean, but if that kind of thing doesn't get the juices going, fair enough.

Or are you suggesting that it's our role to keep our crags as clean as Stanage so that visiting Peakie Scum won't get their hands dirty?  (ps the current President of Northumberland, and my lord and liege is a Peakie scum so don't start )

Get yerself up there, you'll love it.

[Fiend]

Errr, yes, I think as locals it would be very good if you, as presumably regular visitors to the crags, could help keep the major routes clean and thus encourage people to go there and try to reverse the vicious spiral of less traffic / dirty rock into a virtuous one of more traffic / clean rock.

Generally I am not that inspired by driving a few hours, walking in nearly an hour, and finding well-established mid-grade 3-star classics to be unclimably filthy and be faced with the prospect of spending yet more time cleaning them off and missing out on the onsight experience that I very much value.

I think it's great that the guys have dug this one out but I can see it sharing a similar fate - a moment of glory and then sink into obscurity, not because of the quality of the climbs but....what?? The lack of traffic I guess....

[slackline]

Sorry I disagree, no one has a responsibility to keep crags clean for visitors to enjoy.  You'd get pretty bored of going back to the same venue time after time after time, repeating routes/problems that you have wired just so it stays clean for you to get your onsight when you choose to visit Fiend.

Finding routes dirty, is as I'm sure you know, part of the adventure of going to new and obscure places (and I'm pretty sure you've been to some obscure places in your time!).

[Johnny Brown]

Get a grip Fiend!

[SA Chris]

I think as locals it would be very good if you, as presumably regular visitors to the crags, could help keep the major routes clean and thus encourage people to go there and try to reverse the vicious spiral of less traffic / dirty rock into a virtuous one of more traffic / clean rock.

So how often have you gone thought oh it's a nice sunny day, I must go to my local crag and clean route xxxx which, even though i have done a few dozen times, I must keep clean in case some whiny outsider wants to come and onsight it? Honestly?

[SA Chris]

Hellloooo.... unclimbed roof crack? 

Can I ask you to name it the Raoul Roof if you do it?

[jdal]

Simon's comment on "Raoul Roof  ", from The Other Place:

"As for the main roof crack. It looks epic (bold and lacking grips). Bare in mind the place overhangs by 7m and we put up routes to E6, so I can only speculate how hard the roof will be, but its definitely not a question of just shoving a fist in and cranking to the top.
"

[Fiend]

WTF is this, UKC?? Slackers and Chris you mustn't have had your coffee yet. Or too much maybe.

Sorry I disagree, no one has a responsibility to keep crags clean for visitors to enjoy.

I didn't say anyone has a responsibility. It was a request.

You'd get pretty bored of going back to the same venue time after time after time, repeating routes/problems that you have wired

I didn't say that anyone should do that. I thought it would be obvious that keeping routes clean would involve a quick scrub.
Bear in mind that some climbers do go to their local crags and repeat climbs time after time (hello Johnny Ogre). Also bear in mind that the routes at the crag mentioned couldn't be repeated because they are filthy.

 

just so it stays clean for you to get your onsight when you choose to visit Fiend.

It's not for me, it's for everyone. I was answering JDal's "They need a bit of effort to get there and then get your chosen few feet of rock clean,", giving reasons why I would struggle to do so.

Finding routes dirty, is as I'm sure you know, part of the adventure of going to new and obscure places (and I'm pretty sure you've been to some obscure places in your time!).

Damn right I have. However these are not new and obscure places I'm talking about. I'm talking about 3 star classics at some of the major crags in Northumberland. There's a world of difference between the status and thus one's climbing expectations of, say, Ravensheugh (well written up as one of the best crags in the County) and some esoteric Matlock Quarry.

So how often have you gone thought oh it's a nice sunny day,

Cleaning obviously does not require a nice sunny day.

I must go to my local crag and clean route xxxx which, even though i have done a few dozen times,

Firstly these routes couldn't be done a few dozen times. Secondly if locals like repeating stuff (which I know some do), then sparing a few repeats to clean off the route instead might be a nice thing to do.

I must keep clean in case some whiny outsider wants to come and onsight it? Honestly?

Not sure why you bother writing that, but the reason to keep routes clean is so that climbers in general will actually visit the crag, be able to climb the routes, and enjoy doing so. Including you, me, Johnny Slackline, and everyone else.

And yes, of course I have cleaned stuff off. I spent many hours scrubbing several routes at Egerton (and later talked anonymously to visiting climbers who had only come and enjoyed them because they'd been cleaned). I've regularly cleaned good routes at more esoteric venues when abbing for gear, scrubbing holds, pulling out plants and suchlike. I've sometimes randomly abbed down routes (one recently at Craigmore) to clean them off, just because they're good bits of rock that shouldn't go to waste. Oh and I also help keep stuff clean going to these crags and climbing these routes even if they are not in perfect nick.

The point being.....errrr.....the point being my original point. It's not really that obscure is it.

[slackline]

WTF is this, UKC?? Slackers and Chris you mustn't have had your coffee yet. Or too much maybe.

I don't drink coffee (or tea or hot drinks in general really).

Sorry I disagree, no one has a responsibility to keep crags clean for visitors to enjoy.

I didn't say anyone has a responsibility. It was a request.

Even if its a request, once they've cleaned and done the routes they might go back occasionally, but I doubt it would be regularly enough to keep it clean.

You'd get pretty bored of going back to the same venue time after time after time, repeating routes/problems that you have wired

I didn't say that anyone should do that. I thought it would be obvious that keeping routes clean would involve a quick scrub.
Bear in mind that some climbers do go to their local crags and repeat climbs time after time (hello Johnny Ogre). Also bear in mind that the routes at the crag mentioned couldn't be repeated because they are filthy.

Because its quick and convenient to access as opposed to a longer, more distant approach as is the case here, and one person climbing at somewhere where there are tons of other traffic like Stanage isn't the same as encouraging locals to keep more obscure crags clean

Not sure why you bother writing that, but the reason to keep routes clean is so that climbers in general will actually visit the crag, be able to climb the routes, and enjoy doing so. Including you, me, Johnny Slackline, and everyone else.

So we should all be visiting them and keeping them clean as opposed to "locals" doing so, they had the "vision" to find and clean the rock in the first place, and they've been generous enough to write it all up and make it freely available, their work is done.

Trouble is there are thousands of places that could do with attention, which few should take precedence over the thousands of others.

If you (and I'm talking generally here and not having a dig at yourself) choose to go to an obscure crack you can expect to have to do some work cleaning it, and will have factored that into the decision making process, otherwise you'd have chosen to go somewhere else.

[SA Chris]

WTF is this, UKC??

Funny, asked myself the exact same question when I saw your post.

[Fiend]

Chris, hush. You're smarter than that and you know perfectly well that the point I was making was a reasonable one made in good spirit.

Even if its a request, once they've cleaned and done the routes they might go back occasionally, but I doubt it would be regularly enough to keep it clean.

But other people would go there, if it was publicised, and keep the routes clean. As I said it's about reversing the spiral.

Because its quick and convenient to access as opposed to a longer, more distant approach as is the case here, and one person climbing at somewhere where there are tons of other traffic like Stanage isn't the same as encouraging locals to keep more obscure crags clean

That was just an example. There are locals to more esoteric crags who visit them regularly.

So we should all be visiting them and keeping them clean as opposed to "locals" doing so, they had the "vision" to find and clean the rock in the first place, and they've been generous enough to write it all up and make it freely available, their work is done.

Correct. I personally do try (as you well know!), although at the moment I would struggle with some of the crags in question.

In the case of Tosson, aye the locals have done great, see my earlier praise. But as I said, I wonder what is going to happen. If established and classic crags aren't kept clean enough (by visiting traffic and/or local cleaning), then what hope does this place have??

Trouble is there are thousands of places that could do with attention, which few should take precedence over the thousands of others.

That's a good question. The only obvious answer is the ones with the highest quality routes and the best choice for the average climber.

If you (and I'm talking generally here and not having a dig at yourself) choose to go to an obscure crack you can expect to have to do some work cleaning it, and will have factored that into the decision making process, otherwise you'd have chosen to go somewhere else.

As I said, I'm not talking about obscure crags. Tosson might be obscure, I don't know. Ravensheugh and South Yardhope certainly aren't - they've got as many stars per route average as the Kyloes and Bowdens.

(Incidentally Kyloe In was somewhere I went a few years ago with the specific intention to clean off the finishes of several routes so I could climb them the next day. After soloing a few routes I discovered they were mostly fine thanks to juggy finishes, so ended up soloing / leading loads of routes at the crag....I doubt many people do that these days despite the quality)

[Fiend]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=56539

Of course I agree entirely with Simon's sentiments and promotion there. It's the sort of attitude I've been taking for years - if friends ask me for crag recommendations, I always suggest the furthest to reach, rarest in conditions crags whenever time and conditions allow.

Whether people will actually heed such encouragement I don't know....I wonder how many ascents these routes will be getting in a year's time??

[SA Chris]

Chris, hush. You're smarter than that and you know perfectly well that the point I was making was a reasonable one made in good spirit.

Don't tell me to hush. Good spirit certainly wasn't the tone of your posting and i think you know it.

[Will Hunt]

We do an annual club trip to Northumberland in October (our first weekend trip i.e. lots of people who have never climbed before). Would this be a suitable venue for such a trip (time of year and abundance of easy climbing)? I'm getting sick of Bowden Doors.

[jdal]

We do an annual club trip to Northumberland in October (our first weekend trip i.e. lots of people who have never climbed before). Would this be a suitable venue for such a trip (time of year and abundance of easy climbing)? I'm getting sick of Bowden Doors.

I wouldn't think so! There isn't an "abundance" of easy climbing - the first independant report we've had is that the grading may a bit - er - Northumbrian and you may get  .

The Wanneys area isn't a bad bet for a weekend Uni meet. There's Curtis Crag, Great Wanney, East Woodburn and Wolf. Enough for boulderers, beginners, highballers and climbers  . There's a camspite at Bellingham and a bunkhouse. And pubs galore .  If you stay at Bellingham you can add Callerhues and Howlerhurst to the crag list 

[Will Hunt]

Cheers, I'll check them out. We stay in the village hall in Lucker if that's any help for further suggestions?

[benj_d]

Cheers, I'll check them out. We stay in the village hall in Lucker if that's any help for further suggestions?

Hepburn is well worth a visit since you are very near. Not a lot there but definitely some quality problems, make sure you have the guide though.