[gme]

Yes its a hard line to beat. A perfect blue streak up the best looking wall of the most perfect limestone in the world. I cant see anything ever improving on it. The routes in the flatanger cave are not obvious until you see people on them but unlike most limestone they do follow features and make logical sense. Other than the fact biography follows a beautiful blue water streak its not a line at all.

Its the not topping out comments i dont get, thought i had strayed onto UKC.

[abarro81]

I always thought that Black Bean and No Future were better lines than biography, since they go the whole way up the middle of that wall, but I suspect I may be in the minority on that front.

[jwi]

Black Bean is definitely a better line than Biographie.

[Will Hunt]

Its the not topping out comments i dont get, thought i had strayed onto UKC.

It's a bit of tongue in cheek I think, gme.
That said, it looks like he gets to a massive jug, shakes out for ages, does a hard move, and clips the chains. It does seem contrived, from my armchair, to add that extra hard move - but obviously I know absolutely nothing about it. As far as I'm concerned it's not an arête, ergo it's contrived and might as well be an eliminate 

[Fiend]

I'm going to speculate from my distant armchair that the position where he clips the chains is a more natural finishing position in reality than the position where he shakes out in the middle of a roof.

[spidermonkey09]

Think the angles of that cave are all over the shop and make discerning how steep it is at various points really hard; almost a kind of optical illusion. Presume that vert bit is logical as a finish point but that last hard move does seem odd. Imagine dropping it there....

[Ged]

Isn't it safe to assume that Ondra would have put a reasonable amount of thought into where the line finishes, has a much more intimate knowledge of the cave, and is therefore right?!

Also think it's fairly safe to assume that seeing as he specifically trained knee bars for the route, and took a physio to the cave with him, that he would have developed hand jamming skills further if he thought it would have made the sequence easier.  Baffles me that people are looking at a video of the undisputed best climber in the world (and I mean best, not strongest), on the hardest route in the world, and basically saying "he'd find that way easier if he could jam"

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Ged, bit of a straw man there. 

By your reckoning, his coach must be a far better climber than Ondra - giving the world's best climber advice on how to improve his movement.

There's nothing at all strange about being able to deconstruct someone else's technique and find areas for improvement.

Your reference to "best climber" is such a general claim - which I'm not trying to dispute - but there will be those climbers, better than Ondra at certain things.

There's the sense that there are other strengths that may add a little something. I get that feeling too.

Re the cave/end of the pitch, yes, pitches through large roofs do often finish at awkward spots.

Dave.

[teestub]

Your reference to "best climber" is such a general claim - which I'm not trying to dispute - but there will be those climbers, better than Ondra at certain things.

Well, he’s done most of the hardest sport climbs in the world, boulderered to one grade below the current max grade (at which there is only one problem currently, would love it if he did burden of dreams this year) and has done the hardest trad route in the world from a starting point as a big wall novice.

I guess his alpine and high altitude record need some work!

Which climbers, and what things are they better at than Ondra? My list so far includes:
-Nalle: seiging a boulder problem over several years.

[gme]

Dave

I dont believe that he got the physio in to improve his movement on the route at all. He got the physio in to help him improve the ability of his body to be able to carry out the movements he needed it to do as efficiently as possible.

Very much i need my leg to do this not how do i do this move.

As for teeshub comment i couldn't agree more he is the all round package when it comes to rock climbing. If he chose to take up crack climbing i am pretty sure he would eat up the hardest the world has at the minute and add a grade or two very quickly. Ditto UK trad, imagine what he could do in a week in Pembroke.

In 30+ years of climbing i have not seen anyone so dominant, not even close. Its a very exciting time for the sport.

[Fultonius]

GME, while I agree with most of what you said...I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (or was it not a short part in the video) where the physio actually did offer movement advice?

Small point....

[Fiend]

Baffles me that people are looking at a video of the undisputed best climber in the world (and I mean best, not strongest), on the hardest route in the world, and basically saying "he'd find that way easier if he could jam"

That would be interesting if people were actually saying that, instead of specifically clarifying that that was NOT what they were saying 

[gme]

GME, while I agree with most of what you said...I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (or was it not a short part in the video) where the physio actually did offer movement advice?

Small point....

It would be very interesting if this was the case. Would it not be more like the physio watching him climb then helping achieve these movements or advising him how to do the better. I cant imagine a non climber would be able to tell him stuff like move your foot there or drop your knee further.

[gme]

I do find how he and others are approaching the sport amazing and am genuinely interested in how this can help people of all grades, especially as an older climber who has a renewed keenness for one more try at doing something a bit hard. A different approach might see me getting beyond where i got before, and that is pretty motivating.

If however i see someone at the crag with a physio lying on the ground squirming through a visualization technique for any route lass than 9b i will humiliate them mercilessly.

[duncan]

My take on this was the physio. was working as a coach/conditioner to suggest specific exercises to help with the very particular challenges of Silence.

I believe Ondra and TomPR, occasionally of this parish, have been in contact (someone's instagram). I imagine crack climbing may have been mentioned in passing!

[HaeMeS]

@GME: Watch the video. Klaus Isele told Ondra part of his beta wasn’t going to work because of physical limitations. He suggested alternatives. From 08:10 - 08:50 in the movie. Klaus Isele is a very competent climber. And the physio for the Austrian climbing team for years. More on Klaus: http://www.thecircuitclimbing.digital/klaus-isele/

[Fiend]

I thought that bit - like, errr, almost all the film - was really interesting. It's not movement advice as in beta, it's movement advice as in using specialist physio knowledge to see how either moves could be tweaked to fit in with muscular limitations or muscle usage could be tweaked to fit in with extreme movements. High end stuff.

[tomtom]

If however i see someone at the crag with a physio lying on the ground squirming through a visualization technique for any route lass than 9b i will humiliate them mercilessly.

Don’t give Shark ideas....

[SA Chris]

I'd love to make a punter version of that part, someone helping visualise sequence on a VS.

Bit like the Vic and Bob freerunning vid.

[HaeMeS]

Ondra on his plans for 2018, 2019 and 2020 (the World championships, Yosemite and Tokyo).

https://livellozero.net/en/adam-ondra-salathe-on-sight-attempt-and-training-for-the-olympics-2020/

[jwi]

This one on the same site was much more fun
https://livellozero.net/en/new-9b-for-pirmin-bertle/

Beef like it is 1991. (One-sided beefs are the best. I particularly liked his wish that anyone (Adam) who downgrades his linkup should be speared on the horn of an ibex.)

[Fiend]

Ondra on his plans for 2018, 2019 and 2020 (the World championships, Yosemite and Tokyo).

https://livellozero.net/en/adam-ondra-salathe-on-sight-attempt-and-training-for-the-olympics-2020/

And rightfully slagging off speed climbing 

[jwi]

Ondra just did his nineteenth 8c+ onsight with “First flight” in Canada. The route has previously been flashed by Alex Megos.

http://fanatic-climbing.com/first-flight-8c-a-vue-par-ondra-first-flight-8c-onsight-by-ondra/

[Mushin]

as well as 'second go flashing' a 9a+, which he downgraded to 9a.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlEDlC_hYcU/?taken-by=adam.ondra

[jwi]

I've been slightly curious to know if the performance of elite climbers display variation due to periodisation of load. For comp climbers this is not easy to investigate but for climbers performing mostly outdoors my idea is to track the monthly variation in best grade. Since Adam Ondra has a public scorecard I started with him.

The graph I made fits neatly into this thread. It shows the best performance/performances every month, and I only considered routes with "equivalent" grade 8c+ or harder, considering routes below that as not a performance.



Note, on the y-axis: 8b+ os = 8c flash = 9a rp.