[Sasquatch]

It would be interesting to see a crack specialists approach to that crux section. He doesn't really use any/many jams, but they do look available.

Apparently climbing 8b+ cracks like those on the dawn wall aren't specialist enough...

[ferret]

My post was supposed to be taken completely literally. I think it would be interesting to see a crack specialists approach to that section. Maybe with more crack specific techniques it would be easier, harder, or not possible at all, no idea, but I do think it would be interesting to watch. What I was not saying is that it's probably 6a if you jam it and Ondra is a punter.
Ondra is obviously the greatest climber the world has ever seen, in fact he's so good I struggle to envision anybody ever being better (although I'm sure they will). As good as he is I also struggle to believe that there is nobody in the world better than him specializing in less popular or esoteric forms of climbing, like hard cracks, slabs and dynos.
As pointed out Ondras obviously a very good crack climber, as evidenced by his ascents in the valley. Although I'm not sure climbing cracks a full number grade below your limit makes you a specialist (regardless of the difficulty). I'm sure we've all seen people climb cracks that are significantly below their physical limit, with less than perfect technique (of course people with no technique also fail on cracks many number grades beneath their limit). I do however think that climbers who spend much of their time on cracks, and climb very close to their physical limit are more specialized, and likely have better crack technique than Ondra.

[duncan]

I enjoyed the film and -unusually for this genre - wished it had been a bit longer. I was surprised when what I thought was another try turned out to be the successful ascent. Enjoyed the portrail of the process, though the replica looked easier than the real thing. The final shot revealing the route only climbed a portion of the cave was a fitting end: this is only the beginning.

[gme]

Loved the film. The cave really is a special place for lots of reasons other than the obvious amount of hard climbing. The pan away shot at the end really shows the scale of it.

Re the crack climbing specialist point. I find it amazing that people think this. He spent 4 years on this, specific training, numerous trips and even a speciaist physio to work on aspects of climbing that are pretty unique. Do you not think that if it was possible to jam it at an easier grade he would have just spent a load of time learning how to.

[ferret]

Re the crack climbing specialist point. I find it amazing that people think this. He spent 4 years on this, specific training, numerous trips and even a speciaist physio to work on aspects of climbing that are pretty unique. Do you not think that if it was possible to jam it at an easier grade he would have just spent a load of time learning how to.

So I take it you didn't read my post at all

[gme]

I wasn’t replying to your comment, which I had read, I was responding to a number of comments on here and also that I have heard elsewhere. If you could jam this route he would have done so.

[user deactivated]

The physio section was great, where he's lying on his back and the guy is running through the moves. Can't believe the stress he placed on his knee without injury.

[petejh]

I can't be the only one who felt, on seeing the end of the route being a heel-hook shake out and then one hard move to an arbitrary clip on a vertical bit of the cave, that it was a bit of an anti-climax to the world's hardest route.

That should be read for what it is - my honest feeling on watching. Not any sort of armchair criticism. Ondra's one of the few heroes in climbing.

Of course climbing anything's arbitrary. Most tor routes finish at some arbitrary point one-third up the cliff. And this film perfectly highlights that arbitrary nature of climbing. Just that some routes do have great and obviously natural finishes but this climb, from what's shown in the film and from never having set foot in the cave, doesn't seem to.

Enjoyed the film though, really showpieces Flatanger and Ondra's just a razor sharp legend 

[monkoffunk]

I can't be the only one who felt, on seeing the end of the route being a heel-hook shake out and then one hard move to an arbitrary clip on a vertical bit of the cave, that it was a bit of an anti-climax to the world's hardest route.

I got that sense slightly, but yes sport climbing can be pretty arbitrary. I do remember thinking the opposite with Jumbo Love, was cool that that topped out.

But also plenty of groundbreaking ascents have been extensions of previously established climbs, so who know what might happen in the future? I suppose it depends on what the climbing is actually like above. The cave is so massive, might be strange if it turns into a massive multiple route if the rest of it is no where near as hard. Who knows!

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Yes, Silence is right up there with the likes of "Arnold's Armblaster" 

I was wondering how long the route is. The features on the next section of rock look as though they'd offer opportunity for some easier climbing thereafter.

Interesting other comments from Ferret and Petejh, which I think are completely relevant.

I do however acknowledge that "Thou shalt not criticise Ondra"!

No, that's ridiculous. GME, given your own comments about the psychology and mentality of climbers in the UK, I'm a bit surprised about your own input there.

The number grade of the cracks climbed don't infer good crack technique, which is Ferret's point. I CAN believe Ondra has crap crack technique compared to some, but being able to climb 8C etc after a long 8b intro, probably allows for a huge margin of error on an 8b+ crack.

Why put the man on a massive pedestal, and yourself on a lower? I can't imagine Jerry thinking like that. Massive source of inspiration yes  and a great film, both insightful and humourous - puntering off the replica was quality 

A great resource of positivity.

There's a huge roof on the Scottish island of Foula which really ought to see some class action soon..

[ferret]

I wasn’t replying to your comment, which I had read, I was responding to a number of comments on here and also that I have heard elsewhere. If you could jam this route he would have done so.

Apologies in that case.

I wonder the section leading into and establishing the footlock is nails and if you get this section perfect maybe the difference between a jam and a sloper for the following moves isn't much of a big deal to ondra

[gme]

I have no idea what you are on about Dave.

I am suggesting that if it was easier to climb the crack by jamming I would have thought that Ondra would have spent time learning how to rather than doing it a harder way. He spent 4 years trying it so pretty sure he would have looked at that option.
And I am not saying that there are not better crack climbers out there than him, but I do believe he would be become the best if he put his mind to it. Has Tom Randall not proved that it’s possible to train for them.
Nor have I put him on any kind of pedestal other than the one he has claimed for himself.

I really don’t know where your comment came from.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Yes, I've probably taken some of your remarks out of context. I'll admit it was a bit of a reaction - to the general sense that this is the "Church of Ondra" 

I think there's plenty of validity in what people are saying, when they pick up on a sense of some weakness in technique for AO on the crux of the route. However, it's nothing close to being a pure crack climb, and so going off to train for cracks - a la Randle - seems much less relevant here. That doesn't mean there isn't some weakness in technique for Ondra that could otherwise be bloody useful, which is what I think people are saying.
Seems relevant to me.

Re your own comments, I don't think they really fit the context of the route; there's not enough crack to make going off to train in that way beneficial. Again though, someone who is a bit of a wizard at cracks may find something really useful there.

Ondra though, doesn't appear to consider himself a wizard, which is something else that people find likeable, and his immense enthusiasm.

My takeaways from Ondra's videos, is the balance and criticism of his own relative weaknesses/strengths.

[Fiend]

Having watched that video, I am renewing my membership in the Church Of Ondra (not that I really intended to let it lapse either). Great stuff. His professional support network is impressive too, the guy is not fucking around there either. And as GME said, the amount of rock above Silence Pitch 1 is shocking

[Will Hunt]

Having watched that video, I am renewing my membership in the Church Of Ondra (not that I really intended to let it lapse either). Great stuff. His professional support network is impressive too, the guy is not fucking around there either. And as GME said, the amount of rock above Silence Pitch 1 is shocking

I only watched the bit with the actual send footage. My wife saw it over my shoulder and her reaction was "Why's he finished there? He's got miles to go".

I can only agree. He could do at least another two pitches. Preferably ending in some sort of choss "exit chimneys".

Back around.

[Luke Owens]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfoDd4WllzB/?taken-by=adam.ondra

8c+, 9a FA and 9a+ FA in two days...

[Fiend]

Genuine LOL at "exit chimneys" :D

[cheque]

So many amazing things about that film, not least the size of the cave.

Like Duncan I was surprised when I realised I was watching the succesful attempt. I'd say that's a very good thing though- most of these project films batter you over the head with footage of the protagonist failing on each hard bit to the point where you can see "the send" coming a mile off. Made sense to get the celebration out of the way at the beginning too. We always know that they did the route before we start watching these films so the tension can be a bit false.

I realised I'm utterly naive to how tough these 9th grade routes are when I saw Ondra's preparation and support team for this. I still pictured him making soup in his camper van under the crag with his folks. Can't wait to see someone being rolled around on a Thermarest under Ben's Roof by their coach. 

If Ondra's up for repeating it then hauling up a rack of hexes on cord for an E2 4c top-out pitch then I'm available for the sequel.

[jwi]

[Wil]

Like Duncan I was surprised when I realised I was watching the successful attempt. I'd say that's a very good thing though...

Same here. It's good to not tick the expectation box sometimes and I thought it was really well put together.

[Will Hunt]

I can't be the only one who felt, on seeing the end of the route being a heel-hook shake out and then one hard move to an arbitrary clip on a vertical bit of the cave, that it was a bit of an anti-climax to the world's hardest route.

That should be read for what it is - my honest feeling on watching. Not any sort of armchair criticism. Ondra's one of the few heroes in climbing.

I think I agree with all of this. It would be kind of cool if the world's hardest route was some fantastic king line. It might actually be cooler that it's some minging non-line to a completely arbitrary finish.

And yes, Ondra is a hero.

[Doylo]

It might not be another Biographie but ‘minging non line’ is a bit harsh. 

[SamT]

It might actually be cooler that it's some minging non-line to a completely arbitrary finish.

Err - like hubble then.

[duckandcover]

[gme]

All of the routes in the cave just stop in the middle of nowhere due to there length. This thing is already 50m long which surely is long enough for a single pitch. If you want to extend it do it as another pitch which would be at least another 80m.

Also the flat bit of rock it finishes at is the caves version of a ledge.

Shame all of steve mcs routes all have stupid finishes on a flat bit of rock. Someone should tell him to go and finish them off. Biography has also just been used for reference yet this doesn't top out either just stops at a random big flat bit.

I thought the whole film was superb. The only thing i was disappointed in was not seeing it from the start.

[Doylo]

All of the routes in the cave just stop in the middle of nowhere due to there length. This thing is already 50m long which surely is long enough for a single pitch. If you want to extend it do it as another pitch which would be at least another 80m.

Also the flat bit of rock it finishes at is the caves version of a ledge.

Shame all of steve mcs routes all have stupid finishes on a flat bit of rock. Someone should tell him to go and finish them off. Biography has also just been used for reference yet this doesn't top out either just stops at a random big flat bit.

I thought the whole film was superb. The only thing i was disappointed in was not seeing it from the start.

I was referring to the line of Biographie not where it finishes. But 99 % of routes aren’t going to come close to that line.