[dobbin]

But what about the Brandenburg (sp?) gate project at the tor?

Now I love the tor, but this is really log. One of the reasons it hasnt been done is the sharp snappy holds, and the lack of asthetic loveliness.

[Andy Harris]

Yorkshire in Ondra upgrade shocker

What does big Ron think to an upgrade of Zoolock 25 years+ after the 1st ascent. Has it got harder since the 1st ascent / thought it was considered the benchmark Yorkshire 8a? Could this be a classic example of grade inflation over the years.

I can see him twiddling his tash (no that's not a euphemism) and tutting in disgust

[Paul B]

Yorkshire in Ondra upgrade shocker

What does big Ron think to an upgrade of Zoolock 25 years+ after the 1st ascent. Has it got harder since the 1st ascent / thought it was considered the benchmark Yorkshire 8a? Could this be a classic example of grade inflation over the years.

I can see him twiddling his tash (no that's not a euphemism) and tutting in disgust

maybe next time I bang the 'soft' drum people won't burn me at the stake. There is a definite difference between the Old School venues and the Nu Skool venues. Next I'm going to get Doyle and Sausage on here claiming Margalef is hard because they didn't prepare for a sport climbing trip and got spanked... 

[Adam Lincoln]

Next I'm going to get Doyle and Sausage on here claiming Margalef is hard because they didn't prepare for a sport climbing trip and got spanked... 

The only reason we got spanked was the sharpness of the pockets. We would all have done are respective projects had it not been for the worst state of my skin i have ever experienced. (Well, that's a lie. The main objective of the trip was thrown out the window when a fatty broke a crucial jug off the start)

Oh and as far as Margalef being soft is concerned, that's utter tosh. I would say Labratory sector is as in line with grades as most places. Maybe not quite as old skool as Buoux but they are NOT soft.

Sorry Paul, you hit a nerve with that comment. By the way, what was your excuse for not doing anything when you were there? 

[Paul B]

not saying what I did and doing nothing are a little different wouldn't you say?

[Adam Lincoln]

not saying what I did and doing nothing are a little different wouldn't you say?

Yes Paul.  You keep beating that drum. We will have to agree to disagree then.

[Paul B]

more to the point did you try/crush/enjoy any of the rec's away from Laboratori?

[andy popp]

Yorkshire in Ondra upgrade shocker

What does big Ron think to an upgrade of Zoolock 25 years+ after the 1st ascent. Has it got harder since the 1st ascent / thought it was considered the benchmark Yorkshire 8a? Could this be a classic example of grade inflation over the years.

I can see him twiddling his tash (no that's not a euphemism) and tutting in disgust

I remember seeing a quote from Garth Miller - no slouch - that Zoolook was a joke at 8a.

[Stu Littlefair]

Oh and as far as Margalef being soft is concerned, that's utter tosh. I would say Labratory sector is as in line with grades as most places. Maybe not quite as old skool as Buoux but they are NOT soft.

Like all venues that were very soft, a lot of the easiest routes have now been adjusted in line with some sort of standard. It's funny; I remember you banging on about how soft Tarn was, but I thought the grades there were consistently a grade tougher than margalef. And unlike Paul, I ticked everything there. Which just goes to show how futile arguing about grades is.

On the other hand; British grades are nails. I was at the crag that day with Garth; he swore blind Zoolook would be 8b in Spain. So I'm gobsmacked by Ondra. Although these probably aren't close to the most impressive days climbing he's had, somehow when it's stuff you know it's so much more astounding. Since he's got practically no 8b's left, someone point him at Unjustified; it's the most onsightable of the 'hard' routes.

[Adam Lincoln]

more to the point did you try/crush/enjoy any of the rec's away from Laboratori?

Yes. With a little more success. Even more success over in Suriana. Though the trip did get me fit and strong, which was half the objective anyway.

[Adam Lincoln]

Oh and as far as Margalef being soft is concerned, that's utter tosh. I would say Labratory sector is as in line with grades as most places. Maybe not quite as old skool as Buoux but they are NOT soft.

It's funny; I remember you banging on about how soft Tarn was

I have only climbed two routes in Tarn, so i suspect that wasn't me.

[shark]

Yorkshire in Ondra upgrade shocker
What does big Ron think to an upgrade of Zoolock 25 years+ after the 1st ascent. Has it got harder since the 1st ascent / thought it was considered the benchmark Yorkshire 8a? Could this be a classic example of grade inflation over the years.
I can see him twiddling his tash (no that's not a euphemism) and tutting in disgust

I don't think French grade was applied at the time but do remember it appearing in the mags at E7 6d !

I think Zoolook suited the style of the times as a number of mainly trad climbers were able to do it, as their only 8a. 

As climbers are generally stronger now a technical stamina routes like Zoolook feels harder by comparison with the likes of Raindogs.

[Paul B]

and unlike Paul, I ticked everything there. Which just goes to show how futile arguing about grades is.

I've managed to get rid of the training mindset, the grade thing is a little harder to expel but you're right.

[Stu Littlefair]

I have only climbed two routes in Tarn, so i suspect that wasn't me.

It's a different Adam Lincoln who wrote this on 8a.nu then?

Soft First r/p. Very very soft. Prob 7c+ (8a in day)

Sorry to be a , end of the week and I'm feeling a bit prickly! No harm done I hope...

[Adam Lincoln]

I have only climbed two routes in Tarn, so i suspect that wasn't me.

It's a different Adam Lincoln who wrote this on 8a.nu then?

Soft First r/p. Very very soft. Prob 7c+ (8a in day)

Sorry to be a , end of the week and I'm feeling a bit prickly! No harm done I hope...

Too be fair, it is NEVER 8a, even in Thailand 
Going off one route your comment was a tad sweeping.
Don't worry Stu, no offence taken. When you going to haul yourself to Kilnsey?

[Stu Littlefair]

tomorrow...

[butterworthtom]

Now I love the tor, but this is really log. One of the reasons it hasnt been done is the sharp snappy holds, and the lack of aesthetic loveliness.

Explains why John Gaskins was trying it then 

[T_B]

I think Zoolook suited the style of the times as a number of mainly trad climbers were able to do it, as their only 8a. 

As climbers are generally stronger now a technical stamina routes like Zoolook feels harder by comparison with the likes of Raindogs.

Agreed. At the risk of sounding like JB, I found Zoolook pretty easy. Did it 1st RP 4 weeks after standing on the summit of Denali. Failed on Subculture the following day (i.e. considered soft, but requires power).

[abarro81]

  FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
  I think the thing with Tarn is that it's got a rep partly for 2 routes - planete groove and arnaque. With 'groove' a frenchy told me this was originally done by a long move through the buldge rather than the obvious method moving right then back left here; hence the original 8a grade and why everyone now thinks 7c/+. Arnaque just needs a downgrade to 7c+. There's a few others that have now been downgraded in everything but the guide (i.e. if you look on 8a.nu or speak to someone you'll see they're not considered the guidebook grade anymore), e.g. the keep on movin' extension which is 8b in the guide but is supposed to be soft 8a+. On the whole I thought the grades were comparable to Ceuse, where I'd been just before tarn...

[T_B]

There's that other '8a' left of Rasta vaut rien. Does seem like a popular first 8a on-sight

(Arnaque.com is comparable to Why Me at Two Tier I thought)

[shark]

I found Zoolook pretty easy. Did it 1st RP 4 weeks after standing on the summit of Denial.

[Doylo]

Paul i can handle doing nothing on a two week trip. If it had been 6 months i may have been a little more sacked. Although very different oyster on the orme is the biggest sandbag in britain never mind zoolook! f7c+,its more like font 7c halfway up the crag.ridic!

[Paul B]

Paul i can handle doing nothing on a two week trip. If it had been 6 months i may have been a little more sacked. Although very different oyster on the orme is the biggest sandbag in britain never mind zoolook! f7c+,its more like font 7c halfway up the crag.ridic!

f*cking hell, I love it, say a place is soft get told you did nothing in 6 months. Enjoyed your holiday then 

[Serpico]

I think Zoolook suited the style of the times as a number of mainly trad climbers were able to do it, as their only 8a. 

As climbers are generally stronger now a technical stamina routes like Zoolook feels harder by comparison with the likes of Raindogs.

Agreed. At the risk of sounding like JB, I found Zoolook pretty easy. Did it 1st RP 4 weeks after standing on the summit of Denali. Failed on Subculture the following day (i.e. considered soft, but requires power).

I think Zoolook is a steady 8a redpoint, but as an onsight I'm not surprised he thought it 8a+.
Cue argument about whether routes should be graded for the OS or the RP...

[Nemo]

So: so far he's onsighted: Zoolook, Overnite, Magnetic, The Oak and The Groove / Free n Easy / Breach link.  And would probably have onsighted Predator and Energy Vampire if the finishes were better defined either by chains or guide descriptions.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if ANY of those routes (other than The Groove and Free n Slimy obviously) had previously had onsights?

As for the Zoolook thing, it is undoubtedly the case that that style of climbing was more in vogue in the 80s so folks found that kind of thing easier.  However its also definitely the case that even by the end of the 90s it was MUCH harder than when first done.  Simply due to polish on the footholds - all those glassy smears used to be rough and have lots of friction...

Anyway, yesterdays achievements get my vote for the most gobsmacking days climbing (in any style) in the UK ever...  Hope everything stays dry for the next week and he enjoys himself despite the inevitable circus wherever he goes.