[Sloper]

OK folks here's the place for your rants, demonstrations of tribal loyalty, exhibitions of ignorance and throw away insults like 'tory toff'.

If you're having difficulty starting a conversation we have some cards to help.

National Insurance, does allowing people to keep more of their income take money out of the economy or put money into it?

Are the public services efficient or full of lazy and badly managed staff?

Which is posher St Pauls or Loretto's?

[galpinos]

I'm undecided who to vote for. I'm in South Manchester so the Tories don't get a look in, it's Labour or Lib Dem (so a vote for Lib Dem can be a pro-Tory vote).

Lib Dem would be my first port of call for many reasons including the local MP being good, but there no nuclear stance is ridiculous and I'm a bit concerned what would happen in they did get to weild any power.

I really don't want to see Brown at the helm again, he a deluded lying bastard so that really counts against Labour.

Cameron is actually ok in my eyes but Osbourne is next to useless and I'm unsure of the others behind him.

I need to get reading some policies!

[Jaspersharpe]

I need to get reading some policies!

How about starting with Tory economic policy?

The economy is the most important thing and I have zero faith in the Tories to sort it out. They will screw things up further and feather the nests of the rich. They've virtually said as much with these tax policies, you just have to read between the lines.

Labour have shown themselves time and again recently to be a bunch of cunts. The DEB's just the final straw that shows how fucking corrupt they have become. There are some good apples but I don't want Mandelson running the country so they can fuck off.

I'll be voting Lib Dem as they have the most sensible policies on just about everything. Plus, Nick Clegg is the only one with the balls to admit that he doesn't believe in God instead of trying to creep to a discredited, fairytale believing, paedo controlled bunch of fantasists. Every time I've read about a major policy recently the only ones who've made any sense are the Lib Dems.

People voting Lib Dem might mean that the Tories get in (which is why I've voted Labour previously) but at least there will be one less cunt in parliament (Paul Scriven seems like a decent bloke). It's the only option.

[Jaspersharpe]

Tit.

Mind you, the most shocking thing in the article is that he's 24. Tough paper round?! 

[Bonjoy]

I didn't know that about Clegg. That pushes him up considerably in my estimation

[Stu Littlefair]

Clegg's a legend. We had a 'meet the candidates' day at the Uni during the last election. Grim day, forecast to be shit and rainy for about a week.

Only Clegg and his Lib Dem helpers brought umbrellas.

So it's lucky I agree with the Lib Dems on most policy issues, as Clegg is the only one I'd trust to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

[Jaspersharpe]

That's fucking brilliant. 

[galpinos]

So it's lucky I agree with the Lib Dems on most policy issues, as Clegg is the only one I'd trust to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

Including energy? No nuclear, only renewables and no contigency in place for when our current aging fossil fuel powered stations start to topple over?

I'm in line with many (most?) lib-dem policies but their energy policy really irks as it's something I believe is important, needs sorting and has been avoided by the current goverment.

[Sloper]

Jasper, Tory economic policy is for a balanced budget, reducing debt and encouraging private sector growth.  Ok so there's some quesitons about how they would achieve this but they are at last starting from the advantageous position of not fucking up the economy over an 8 year period.

Cutting jobs in HMRC is not necessarily a bad thing it's a question of which jobs they cut, from my experience HMRC is bloated in the middle and the top and short of front line staff, so hopefully they'll get rid of the deadwood middle management, who amongst other things thought that Toyota's lean manufacturing systems could be imposed on the staff with rules as bizzare as no more than three items (other than a computer) on a desk so telephone, calculator and pad of paper is fine but telephone, calculator and pad of paper and a pen is a disciplinary matter.  No I'm not making this up.

I agree with the quesitons over the Lib Dems anti nuclear stance, we need to embrace nuclear energy asap.

[dave]

I'll be voting Lib Dem as they have the most sensible policies on just about everything. Plus, Nick Clegg is the only one with the balls to admit that he doesn't believe in God instead of trying to creep to a discredited, fairytale believing, paedo controlled bunch of fantasists.

Fucking cynical attempt to get the vote of 5million guilt-ridden brainwashees, where's his self recockingspect?

I'll go with Clegg, cos his name reminds me of the loveable non-offensive last of the summer wine protagonist.

[Stu Littlefair]

The Lib Dem policy on nuclear is a difficulty for me as I can't possibly see a plausible energy plan not including new nuclear. With my optimists hat on, I think this is one of those policy pledges that a hypothetical lib dem
government would roll back on, as it is so plainly unrealistic.

But as I see it, Lib Dems have better plans (and track record) on the economy, which is the big issue. Evan Harris is the only person I trust not to completely shaft UK science investment, which I view as crucial for economic growth. Another big plus is that the Lib Dems seem to me to treat the voters with a bit more respect; discussing issues with a bit more maturity than the main two parties. Perhaps this is a luxury the main parties can't afford, but I like to treat my politicians like pets, and reward good behaviour whenever I see it.

I've grown to hate Labour with every fibre of my being. I can't stand their approach to civil liberties. 13 years of government has made them look totally incompetent. Issues I did like them on (SCIENCE investment, constitutional reform) the've backtracked or lost momentum.

I've never been comfortable with the Tories because I've never bought the concept of trickle down economics. It seems to create more unequal societies which I think are "bad thing". I did consider them this time round as Cameron seems to have made a serious effort to re-align the tories on issues I considered the most toxic. Also, if they get in a large number of their MPs will be 'fresh blood' which makes me more hopeful that a leopard can change their spots. But their position on things like national insurance and inheritance tax and fairy tales about painless "efficiency savings" reminds me that fundamentally the tory philosophy is one I'm uncomfortable with.

So Lib Dems for me, although I did consider the Monster Loonies because of their policy to reduce change by introducing a 99p coin. Genius.

Sloper - can you name me a party that doesn't want a balanced budget, lower debt and more private sector growth?

[Jaspersharpe]

Jasper, Tory economic policy is for a balanced budget, reducing debt and encouraging private sector growth. 

Bollocks. Answer these points and the one about raising VAT as opposed to NI.

I see this shit with my own eyes every day, these are policies for the rich. "Encouraging private sector growth" is a fucking con and a lie. How the fuck is the CT policy doing that? It's screwing small businesses for the sake of Corporate greed and it's blatant.

How is the personal allowance policy going to help anyone apart from those rich enough to be able to afford for one person in their marriage to stay at home? It wont!

Ok so there's some quesitons about how they would achieve this but they are at last starting from the advantageous position of not fucking up the economy over an 8 year period.

"Some questions"? Fucking too right! You can drive a bastard bus through Osborne's figures. He's obviously clueless.

[Sloper]

Married tax allowance is a minor cost and I think worth it, there are plenty of people who are married single earner families who are not rich, but are in that situation because of the cost of childcare.

A couple in our village A & E have two children she is looking to return to work but childcare would cost £18,000 per year.  So she'd have to gross around £30k to pay for the childcare.  As a result her taxable allowance is going to waste.

I'm not sure of the balance between CT and the investment allowance or where the balance would be struck; I would say this however all companies pay CT and consequently a smaller number would rely on the AIA, but as you say perhaps this needs to be retained for SME's with fewer than say 250 employees.

But let's assume that George is a bit underbaked, at least he's got cuddly Ken behind him as opposed to Ed Balls being stroked by Gordon Brown and Charlie Wheelan.

[Jaspersharpe]

£1300 a year tax saving's not going to help pay an £18k childcare bill though so they'd be £100 a month better off but she still can't work. Modifying the tax credits system to include more provision for childcare would make more sense.

The real beneficiaries of the transfer of allowances will be those paying £50% tax.

[Davey_C]

This is a pretty good site to give an overview of the main policies, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8515961.stm

For me this whole DEB thing was also the final straw, I'll not be voting labour.

Personally I think I'll be voting for Lib Dems  although, as mentioned by galpinos, I not keen on their stance against nuclear power. I live in a Newcastle constituency which is an almost guaranteed labour seat - so it feels a bit pointless voting though.

I say this with some trepidation, but if you look at some of the BNP's policies (on the above link) there are a number of these I would like to see the major parties take on. There's absolutely no way I could support the BNP though!

[Jaspersharpe]

And what about NI. The policy stinks and doesn't even make sense when they're saying that they're the party to cut the deficit.

Oh but we'll just help out big business first with a cunning headline grab that fools people into thinking we're doing them a favour.

 

What shite!

[Bernard Jefferies]

Lib Dem can say what they like about nuclear power, but the fact is it is already getting pushed through as we speak.  All the energy companies have bought the land adjacent to many of the countries nuclear power stations and many consultant are already in the process of bidding for them.  Can't see a decent energy policy without nuclear in my opinion.

As long as Gordon Brown doesn't stay in, that's the main thing 

[Sloper]

£1300 a year tax saving's not going to help pay an £18k childcare bill though so they'd be £100 a month better off but she still can't work. Modifying the tax credits system to include more provision for childcare would make more sense.

The real beneficiaries of the transfer of allowances will be those paying £50% tax.

I'm sure that they'd welcome the extra £100 per month!

The point is that tax credit's are an expensive way of giving you back some of your own taxes.  I think the cost of adminsitering the tax credit system is something over 35p for every £ it distributes.

Tax takes money out of the economy, of course we need to pay tax but there's a point at which it becomes destructive as opposed to constructive; lower tax ratea re often associated with higher growth and higher tax revenues.

I owuld rather see lower taxes and a smaller state with the consequent reduction of the intrustion of the state into our private and personal lives.

[Jaspersharpe]

I agree that the administration of the Tax Credits system has been a disaster but that doesn't change the fact that the policy is correct.

Lower taxes are not a fucking option when you have a deficit the size we do. Besides, every tax break the Tories propose benefits those earning the most. That is the fundamental gist of their economic policy and it is shit.

[Sloper]

And why do we have a deficit?  Is it because Gordon Brown had a structural deficit since late 2001

Lower taxes might be argued to stimulate growth and bring in higher tax revenues as happened in the US and Eire etc

[Yossarian]

I think a concerted effort to cut the cost of red tape would be something any incoming party would be congratulated for, and if it were credibly successful then they would deserve a pat on the back.  There is a fucking fortune squandered through misadministration right across the public services, and also through the time and effort that businesses waste, disproportionally affecting small businesses.  I was a researcher on a LBS paper about all this a few years back (which prompted all the Red Tape Tony accusations) and though I acknowledge these things are harder in practice, it certainly shouldn't be shouted down as a pipe dream...

I think a CT reduction is a step in the right direction. I don't know the history of Jasper's AIA, but it smacks of something Labour dreamed up to sweeten the pill of a previous CT or NI hike.  There are two courses of action that I think are absolutely and immediately necessary - an end to profligate and wasteful public spending (including getting the hell out of Afghanistan and wherever else), and a meaningful attempt to give business a boost.  in my eyes the only way we're going to be able to reduce the deficit is if growth accelerates first. if this process gets fucked up (especially if Labour get back in and Balls has a go at the City, which, like it or not is pretty valuable to the economy) then I can see us dropping further down the international economic scheme of things, never to return. Well, unless the Chinese decide to move to the moon en masse or something...

[Jaspersharpe]

And why do we have a deficit?  Is it because Gordon Brown had a structural deficit since late 2001

Lower taxes might be argued to stimulate growth and bring in higher tax revenues as happened in the US and Eire etc

I'm not defending Brown and I'm not talking about Labour. Mud slinging is one thing, facts about Tory economic policy are another and you don't seem to be able to challenge any of them.

The FACTS are that, despite what they say, the Tories are still the party who will reduce tax for the rich and screw the rest.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yoss - Actually the main rate of CT was reduced by 2% in 2008 (when AIA was brought in).  The simple fact is scrapping it and reducing the rate further would benefit big companies with massive profits MUCH more than small and medium sized ones.

AIA works. I've seen it work and it is supported by small business leaders.

Oh and I agree totally about the public spending waste thing.

[Stu Littlefair]

Yossarian,

Isn't the point that all the parties have plans to cut red tape and reduce public sector waste? It's definitely to be applauded. The tories though are proposing this 6bn saving on top of the labour plans, and aim to do it in their first year. That seems like the worst kind of rushed salami slicing; cutting spending without enough time to consider what spending is worthwhile or efficient. For example, The freeze on IT spending might cost money down the line. Those 40,000 jobs disappearing from the public sector will also have an economic impact; those people will no longer spend their money on goods and services produced by the private sector.

With regards to cutting CT rates - if it's affordable a tax reduction always sounds good. But with a deficit at 12% of GDP we can't afford tax cuts - as Jasper said. Sloper might argue that cutting taxes can promote growth and increase tax revenue. It didn't happen in the US though, despite what he thinks. Under Reagan tax take fell by 5%. That's surprisingly small given how much the cracked actor cut tax rates, but it's still less tax.

[Falling Down]

I agree that the administration of the Tax Credits system has been a disaster but that doesn't change the fact that the policy is correct.

Why? I think it's a mad policy.