[CBA]

Anyone got any beta for Karma Of Trees @ Kentmere? Tried what i thought was the 7c version but turns out it was the 8a start. Not sure where the 7c starts,and goin back this wknd weather permittin and keen to get on it.

[JohnM]

This will probably get moved to beta.  Stand-start:  Pull on high left hand on obvious small sloper which is slightly square cut on the left hand side and right hand lower on a choice of two small sharp side pulls.  Either put your right foot on the left hand side of the smooth large alcove or higher on a tiny edge if you're  short.  Step your left foot up inside on a small smear as you pull on to stabilise and pop for the left hand side of the v-cut niche up and right and try and hold the swing, or pop slightly further right of niche into a slight vertical slot so that you pinky wedges into the bottom.  This may make it easier to hold the swing but can tear your fingers up!     

[CBA]

Nice one for that,lakesbloc was pretty vague with where the stand up started. Psyched to do it,reckon it's a goer for my first lakes 7c and with beta that clear i aint got any excuses!

[GCW]

lakesbloc was pretty vague with where the stand up started

Considering the guide says

18. The Karma of Trees (7c) - The immaculate clean wall stands out as one of the best problems of the sector.  Using a high finger slope (LH) and crimpy side-pull, pull on and up to a small edge, inner peace (and good body tension) may assist in the spring to a v-shaped notch, continue up the crack and rib above. A low start has been climbed from the obvious RH mono swinging into the centre of the face; continue as above, this is 8a. **

I can't say it's particularly vague.
Tallies can reach the small edge from the ground, which is a reason it has specific starting holds.

[peewee]

It is compared to Johns Beta

[GCW]

The point was that it's vague where it starts.

Whilst the beta for the moves is good, the starting holds aren't descibed any better IMHO.

[CBA]

Fair point. And like i said i've no excuses with beta that detailed. I'm sure all will become clear when i'm looking at the actual starting holds and not a photo topo.

[GCW]

Yes, it'll make sense when you're there.
Good luck on it.

[JohnM]

Oh yeah I forgot the guide mentioned that grim little edge in the middle of the wall.  I prefered to just miss that out as it was tiny and painful.

[CBA]

Cheers guys. Should do ok on it as i do like minging sharp crimps!

[Greg C]

I was pretty flabbergasted when I read that the description to this line was pretty vague. I mean how much more info do you need? I mean fair play ask for some beta, but touting my description as vague is laughable. Nevertheless, I will be sure to put far more effort into my free guides in future.

[JohnM]

Greg please could you paint numbers on the starting holds with R and L and maybe an arrow as well to show what direction to go in? 

[Richie Crouch]

and some mobile webcams that are set up on a network of zip wires updating every second. Ideal for conditions/calling people out over the internet for dodgy starts to well defined problems 

[BenF]

Even with all that technology and beta that you talk of, Monolith would still get the sequence wrong every time he pulled on.   

[Richie Crouch]

A pressure pad on the end of Tom's roof and one on the Screaming Slave footblock which both make an embarrassingly loud buzz if anyone toehooks on Beauty of Being numb or cams a toe in on Screaming. This also triggers a camera to take shots of these offences and publishes them via lakesblog in a name and shame gallery 

[CBA]

 Yeah,well i'm pretty fuckin blind when it comes down to figuring out well defined problems,too much time spent on crappy eliminates in lancs quarries maybe! and i certainly aint casting doubt as to the quality of lakesbloc topos,they're a godsend to a recent lakes convert.

[Probes]

Now then, now then, CBA how dare you. 
 
TBH i think it is a bit iffy which holds are best to pull on with as its a bit height dependant if i remember, but then again i was doing the 3rd ascent and it was written in the bible which holds i should use, hats off to that local guru Si who got in with the 2nd ascent, but thats an irrelevant other story.

[Adam Lincoln]

I was pretty flabbergasted when I read that the description to this line was pretty vague. I mean how much more info do you need? I mean fair play ask for some beta, but touting my description as vague is laughable. Nevertheless, I will be sure to put far more effort into my free guides in future.

Indeed. Went to Little Font today. Karma of trees description vague? 

[Will Hunt]

I had great fun/frustration/addiction/pain trying this yesterday. Attempts ended when my shoe got a huge rubber flapper from the right foot toe edge! I'd be keen to go back again and have another go but wanted to ask a few questions first to gauge whether it's worth the drive.

I was definitely aiming for the tapering bit of slot on the right hand side of the hold that you go for. The bit to the left looks unholdable surely?! The problem is that the bit of rock that you're actually going for is blind and if you're there on your own it's difficult to aim for the right bit and to get feedback on where else you should have aimed (left a bit/right a bit etc). It felt like it'd be a lot easier with a spotter holding a big stick and pointing to exactly where you needed to aim. Is this actually the case or am I being daft? Is the crux of the problem hitting the right bit of the slot?

Which brings us to question 2. I had a couple of goes where I hit the slot and it felt pretty good (but no elusive pinky jam that's mentioned above, which it looks like should be possible if you aim well). But not good enough to actually hold the swing. Is the crux of this problem holding the swing out, or is that a bit of a given when you get the slot just so? I'm not very strong so if it's nails to hold on then I should probably write it off.

When I was pulling on, I had my right foot on the little edge to the left of the big sloping shelf thing. Left foot never goes on at all. I started off pulling into the slap from quite low, but feel like I had more luck later on when I pulled in quite tight and brought my body weight right to be more over the foothold. It feels then like you're more "underneath" the hold you're going for and the move to it is more of a snatch/flick (after a little pull in off the sidepull) than a throw. Question 3 - does this sound good or did something else work for you? Question 4 - should I have experimented with the right foot on the sloping footshelf? It looked like that would put you quite low and potentially make pulling on and up quite stiff (pulling on and up with the right foot on the small edge is a doddle).

[turnipturned]

I have a video of Katz that won’t help you!

[Will Hunt]

I have a video of Katz that won’t help you!

Haha! I bet he claws his way up those filthy crimps. I need beta for the weakest of the weak!