[Jeff25]

So i have my Beastmaker on order and am coming to the end of my project (hopefully), so will be moving from climbing into the bouldering arena ready to try to get ready for Gritstone this winter.

Anyway my question is, if over the next two/three months I want to work strength and power could repeaters be the right answer for the strength component of this?

Background:
- Sport climber best doing long face/slightly overhanging routes requiring mega stamina and little strength.
- Onsight F7b ish and fail on half the v4/v5s at the Castle indoor wall.
- My thinking for any grit headpoints is that the difficulty on these routes is often so shortlived theyre often like little boulder problems with either some easy moves before or after a nails crux. So i need better fingers and more power to latch longer more dynamic moves.
- Due to family commitments etc etc this winter may be my last one where im climbing even half way decently so wanna get this right.

Repeaters thoughts.
- The 7 seconds, 3 seconds nature of the exercise makes me doubtful im doing strength and fearful that im doing more endurance (last thing i need)
- Strength training in other sports often mean circa 6 or 8 reps. Is the idea of the repeaters that each 7 second 'hold' is a rep?
- If yes to the above, is 7 secs too long and should it be more like 4 or 5 with say only 2 secs rest? - has anyone tried shortening the time of repeaters?

Thoughts welcomed.

[galpinos]

Not got time for an indepth reply but I'd say repeaters are more hypertrophy and short (2-5 secs) hangs with long rests as per the Rich Simpson method is recruitment.

[abarro81]

I've tried doing 4 hangs instead of 7 and quite like it - can use notably worse holds and it does feel more strength based than 7rep repeaters, especially if you're not using long-ish rests for the 7 rep ones.. Not being doing them long enough to know if it's working well or not in terms of getting stronger.

[a dense loner]

but abarro's pinch strengths gone through the roof with all that hanging on the slopers

[mrjonathanr]

Not sure about the endurance/recruitment debate but I can confirm they're particularly effective at producing rotator-cuff strains/inflammation if done when fatigued after a long training session.

[rodma]

Not sure about the endurance/recruitment debate but I can confirm they're particularly effective at producing rotator-cuff strains/inflammation if done when fatigued after a long training session.

Wow, are you sure that it's not you that caused it rather than a fingerboard 

[mrjonathanr]

I-R-O-N-Y anyone?

[Jeff25]

I've tried doing 4 hangs instead of 7 and quite like it - can use notably worse holds and it does feel more strength based than 7rep repeaters, especially if you're not using long-ish rests for the 7 rep ones.. Not being doing them long enough to know if it's working well or not in terms of getting stronger.

Ok, so you reduced the number of reps but kept the 'time' of each rep the same. I.e. had to hold the hold for 7 secs, short rest then repeat. - 4 times.

I think i might try this. I suppose as long as youre nearing failure at the end of the 4th hang then this is whats needed.

Anyone know what the Rich Simpson method is mentioned in an above post. ive had a google but not sure ive got the right info.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Anyone know what the Rich Simpson method is mentioned in an above post. ive had a google but not sure ive got the right info.

http://www.moonclimbing.com/fingerboard-training-plan-c-334_353.html

[shark]

Can't say if they are for you but I can say they weren't for me - or didnt seem to be so I sacked them off. They arent the only exercises Varian recommends in his articles but calling them the 'daddy' of fingerboard exercises has gave them prominence.

I have got results by just selecting a variety of fingerholds/combos that I could scarcely hold or hold up to 3 secs. I then ordered then in difficulty and have 5 goes at each but not getting hung up about timing between goes or rests and try to beat the best hangs from the previous session (I just count in my head so not very scientific). At the end I do a set of 30 sec hangs on the minute for endurance.

ps Don't skip the warm-up as it gets the grip strength going.

[Jeff25]

I have got results by just selecting a variety of fingerholds/combos that I could scarcely hold or hold up to 3 secs. I then ordered then in difficulty and have 5 goes at each but not getting hung up about timing between goes or rests and try to beat the best hangs from the previous session (I just count in my head so not very scientific). At the end I do a set of 30 sec hangs on the minute for endurance.

Thanks for this Simon. 3 secs seems more the time duration for each 'rep' that im looking for. (or think im looking for but maybe im biased). Ill do sets of these on a variety of grips
Interesting that you work some endurance on the same session. - Any thoughts on working Power on the same session? - or even straight after each strength exercise like Eric Horst recomends and calls 'complex training'?

Thanks

[galpinos]

Jeff,

Sepico, of this parish and the other channel, who seems to be well informed on training, seems to hold Horst in very low regard so I'd get abit more info before following any of his training plans.

[Jeff25]

Jeff,

Sepico, of this parish and the other channel, who seems to be well informed on training, seems to hold Horst in very low regard so I'd get abit more info before following any of his training plans.

yeah, i think hes a bit off piste sometimes as well. In the instance of complex training he does quote studies that have shown it to work but then goes into remarkably little depth on why, and on how to get the most out of it. Not sure about alot of Horsts weighted bouldering stuff as well.

what i do think is good is his distinction between working fingers and working the larger 'pull' muscles as he calls them. This and his emphasise on isolating and targetting a particular muscle group.

Thanks,

[shark]

Thanks for this Simon. 3 secs seems more the time duration for each 'rep' that im looking for. (or think im looking for but maybe im biased). Ill do sets of these on a variety of grips
Interesting that you work some endurance on the same session. - Any thoughts on working Power on the same session? - or even straight after each strength exercise like Eric Horst recomends and calls 'complex training'?

Thanks

This business of complex training is a bit err complex for me. Presumably he has extrapolated the proven Javorek complex dumbell and barbell routines and presumed they would equally work for stuff like isometric finger training. I have no idea about what combinations might or might not work if any - I suspect this is unmeasured territory. One thing you ideally should do is work a larger a muscle group in the same session. Unless you are Popeye the forearm is a relatively small muscle and working bigger muscles Serpico tells me elicits a greater hormonal response that in turn stimulates  greater adaptation even if the larger muscle group worked is the legs ! In fact I did a hill session after one of my fingerboard session then realised that working the core was likely to be more useful. Anyway don't go nuts and get injured again with a multi-year layoff.     

[mrjonathanr]

....working bigger muscles Serpico tells me elicits a greater hormonal response that in turn stimulates  greater adaptation even if the larger muscle group worked is the legs ! 

A bodybuilder friend of mine used to say that not working the legs limited size gains in the upper body - presumably because of the hormonal response you're referring to (although was I believe empirical not theoretical knowledge).