[Rocksteady]

I've learned that I'm definitely not one of those people who can go climbing a few times a week and thereby improve constantly. I need to 'train' to get better. What I'm wondering is how people fit in all the components of training into their weeks?

It seems to me that I need to train the following to improve at climbing and stay uninjured:

(1) 3-4 climbing/bouldering days at the wall/at the crag at the weekend (I live in London)

(2) Supplementary climbing strength training - fingerboard/core strength/campusing etc

(3) Antagonistic muscle training - strengthening rotator cuffs, back, press ups etc

(4) General fitness - cardio workouts

How do you guys structure your training to fit it all in? I'm trying to climb Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Sundays on weeks I can't get away for the weekend. I'm trying to do 2 for power/finger strength through bouldering or hard redpointing, one doing endurance laps, and one doing whatever I feel like, mixing it up and doing routes or redpoints.

The main thing I'm struggling with is when people put in their finger-strengthening workouts? Do you beastmake on the same day as climb? Antagonists I'd tend to do on my non-climbing days, likewise cardio - active rest.

Currently I'm not doing any targetted finger training, but I think it's a main area of weakness for me.

Any thoughts/tips/advice/abuse would be appreciated 

Cheers.

[mctrials23]

How long have you been climbing and what grade do you climb at?

[Rocksteady]

I've been climbing reasonably regularly around 3 years now, mostly indoors due to location but try to get a fair few weekends away. I'm mainly a sport climber, O/S best is F6b+, best redpoint F7a. I've only really ever bouldered indoors - I've flashed a few V4s at the Arch and at Craggy, 6a at the Castle. In the Westway I get smacked down in the back room. Never really focussed much on bouldering, which is one thing I want to change with a more organised approach to training.

I feel like I need to climb/train more and more specifically in order to improve. I was stuck at O/S F6a+/6bish for about a year. I am not talented! I have for the last 6 months focused mainly on improving my technique (especially due to a finger injury which precluded finger strength training), and feel that it is this that got me into the F7s.

I defo think I need to ramp up the finger strength training (in a measured way). In terms of back/arm strength I'm ok - with a few weeks practice I can usually bang out a couple of one-arm pull-ups. I'm getting better at twisty steep climbing as some of my climbing mates are a fair bit better than me and are always ready to shout technique advice/abuse where they think I'm going wrong. I feel it's usually my ability to pull on small holds that lets me down, and sometimes my core strength - keeping my feet on the holds effectively.

I'm essentially looking for advice on where to fit supplemental training around a 3-4 day a week climbing schedule. Do beasts train fingers same day/same time as climbing/bouldering? When do you train abs/core? When antagonists? Do you have a specific schedule or just do whatever you feel like? 

[Falling Down]

In terms of back/arm strength I'm ok - with a few weeks practice I can usually bang out a couple of one-arm pull-ups.

 

[slackline]

If you can do one-arm pull-ups then strength (at least in arms/shoulder) is unlikely to be a problem.

It sounds more like its reading the routes/sequence that'll be holding you back and the only solution to that is.....climb more (or watch other climbers to pick up tips).

[mctrials23]

I have just started doing a little sport climbing after primarily bouldering for the last 2 years and the thing that I have found that helps me most is climbing quickly and with good technique.

I havent really climbed properly for about 9 months now ( few times a month) however I have been fingerboarding about once a week.

I went to portland the other week for some sport and found that after 5 days of sport I had nearly got a decent level of stamina. I was only leading 6c by the end but I didnt have to sit on the rope every few bolts like the first day.

Since I got back I went to the local wall and walked up a load of 6's and found them a piece of piss because I had got a little stamina and I had learnt to flow through the climbing much more. If you are not transitioning between holds well then I have found that I climb about 40% worse on routes. Another thing to think about with regards to technique is that if you are not using the correct form then you will not be able to hold and pull in the right direction on the holds to continue and not fall.

The final thing that seems to have helped with sport is learning when to clip and where to clip from and when and where to rest on a route. If you feel that you are good at all the above then you might need to work on the fingers a bit more.

[shark]

I would hazard a guess that what you need is a six month road trip but failing here is an article on planning your training:

http://www.planetfear.co.uk/articles/Neil_Greshams_Guide_to_Self_Coaching_179.html

It sounds like you are prepared to put the effort in but getting enough time on real rock is the crux. Indoors you may get more benefit focussing on finger endurance more than maximal finger strength (not ignoring it entirely) if your goals are to improve at sport climbing. I would think that timewise you are better off doing more bouldering, bouldering and more bouldering (and lead climbing) indoors than cardio or other supplemental stuff as it will help you gain technique, steely fingers and core. Similarly weights you could put aside till you are climbing a few grades harder as it doesn't sound like this area is holding you back at the moment and campussing is also more relevant further down the line.     

If you have the money get a coach like Gresham to properly analyse your weak points who can put together a programme. Failing that/ purchase buy the Self Coached Climber by Hague and Hunter and don't skip past the technique stuff !!

Good luck.

[Rocksteady]

Thanks for the advice so far.

I'm still curious as to how others structure their training week. Do you fingerboard instead of climb certain days? Does it vary depending on time of year?

Having said that, any advice that is to climb more / take a 6 month road trip is welcome. 

 I'll just run it by work - my boss will definitely love it. Personal development... 

[webbo]

are you goonie from cocktalk.it sounds that you are too focused on training and getting strong.given how strong you are already no matter if your fingers are weak,you should be able to climb harder.so as others have said above you just need to climb more preferably outside and maybe try and go cold turkey on your addiction to training.

[Rocksteady]

No not Goonie, but do need some sort of 12 step program to wean me from my addiction to training...

It's just frustrating being shit!

[slackline]

I scanned these a while back which you may find useful.

It's just frustrating being shit!

Shit compared to what though?  The only person you have to "beat" in climbing is yourself (unless you're angling at getting into comps  ), and why such a rush to get to a certain level, enjoy the journey, man 

[webbo]

the 12 step is abit too god botherer like for me.it makes me drink too much.
what you need to lose is the quest for rapid improvement,enjoy your climbing.keep at it. be realistic about whats possible for you and theres a good chance you will get there.

[i.munro]

No not Goonie, but do need some sort of 12 step program to wean me from my addiction to training...

I think it's a London thing due to the dificulty of getting outside much. I've noticed that regular wall bouldering is (finally) starting to show in outdoor projects going down but if I was just measuring progress by indoor grades then I wouldn't be able to see any.

Oh & Mr Line sir (or can I just call you slack?) I don't suppose I could persuade you to do that archive just using zip? I can't open it on a Windows machine at work.

[lagerstarfish]

It's just frustrating being shit!

Shit compared to what though?  The only person you have to "beat" in climbing is yourself (unless you're angling at getting into comps , and why such a rush to get to a certain level, enjoy the journey, man

If I lived in London I would find it hard to enjoy the journey. For me it's time spent on real rock that is the most enjoyable bit. I can appreciate the feeling that you want to be as prepared as possible for the times that you do get on rock.
I've mentioned it before, but there is a very real enjoyment to be had from moving well on rock whilst climbing well within one's limits. It won't make sense until you've got into it.
Improvement doesn't just have to be about grades and strength; for me it can also be about doing moves in better style and with less physical effort. This can work indoors as well as out.

[slackline]

Oh & Mr Line sir (or can I just call you slack?) I don't suppose I could persuade you to do that archive just using zip? I can't open it on a Windows machine at work.

Call me what ever you want sweetie (most people go with slackers though).

Grab yourself a copy of PowerArchiver which supports the bzip2 compression format and will allow you to extract them.

[i.munro]

Ta

[Rocksteady]

Thanks all.

I think you've correctly identified why I want to improve - seems to me if I could sport climb in the mid-7s I could get down to the crag of a weekend and have a lot of options for onsighting a lot of quality routes, maybe a quick redpoint or two. As a Londoner, crag-time is at a premium - I find it a bit annoying getting down there and getting spanked on a 6a+ if I'm having a bad day, with few or no easier options.

My plan now is to boulder more and continue to focus on my technique. I guess the finger strength will come with time and I can always step up endurance training for trips away (like the 6 month road trip I've been prescribed!)

Cheers - advice much appreciated. 

[Steve R]

I've mentioned it before, but there is a very real enjoyment to be had from moving well on rock whilst climbing well within one's limits. It won't make sense until you've got into it.
Improvement doesn't just have to be about grades and strength; for me it can also be about doing moves in better style and with less physical effort. This can work indoors as well as out.

 Worth mentioning again I reckon.  Took me 5/6 years to find this out.  However, I think most would only get into it during a period of spending a lot of time on the rock in the same area.  Whilst going to a crag I know well, just doing problems I've done before but better and/or with a slightly different sequence or something, can give a really satisfying time, I'm not sure it would if it was my month's only outdoor climb.  Then again, if I was that bothered, I'd probably look to get out of London...

[Fatboy]

I scanned these a while back which you may find useful.

It's just frustrating being shit!

Shit compared to what though?  The only person you have to "beat" in climbing is yourself (unless you're angling at getting into comps   ), and why such a rush to get to a certain level, enjoy the journey, man  

Awesome, thanks Slackers!!
Going to go away and nerd out planning a training schedule... 

[Nibile]

i think you can't fit all you want/need into one week, unless you win the lottery and dedicate all your day to do two or more sessions a day, but it's very stressful.
i think you could ask a professional trainer to prepare a schedule on, let's say, a two months basis. so two months will become one macro cycle, in which you will have micro cycles of power, weights, everything.

[Fultonius]

In terms of back/arm strength I'm ok - with a few weeks practice I can usually bang out a couple of one-arm pull-ups.

 

My thoughts exactly!

I can't do a one-armer, I can only just do a one-arm lock off.

This is not intended as a put down or willy waving, but you sound about as strong as me (i.e flash V4 - I have flashed V5 but clearly have less arm/shoulder/back power than you, I can't imagine my finger strength is a lot better since it's one of my week points).

Whereas, I've onsighted a couple of Fr7a's outdoors, flashed a Fr7a+ outdoors and onsighted a few Fr7b's indoors.

See how your mates all keep having jibes about your technique - LISTEN TO THEM!!!! 

When you're down the wall, watch good climbers. Watch how they move, where they rest, watch how they move their feet, then their hands. Copy. Copy. Copy.

On the other hand, you could just continue to train and always have a big defecit between your strength levels and your technique!

Oh yeah, and do the 6 month roadtrip thing, I'm just back from a 7 week trip and I only felt like I was getting started -  but it was awesome