[tomtom]

Ahh.. now I have a postcard of the original of this picture (before Jimmy was shopped in) and it has a piccy of an old chap E'd up gurning away whilst dancing with the slogan "another quality night out in 'ull" Part of a luuurcal group publicising & promoting the nightlife (it was supposed to be ironic before anyone asks..)

[nai]

Hey Nai, any thoughts for the Hull v Birmingham game on Sat? Unfortunately its not my turn to go this week.. I guess its already a 6 pointer - though my feelings are it'll be a 1:1 draw...

I reckon you're lucky to miss it too, suspect it'll be last up on MOTD.  Mcfadden's out for us and Eck seems intent on persevering with O'Conner up front.  I don't understand this, if Kevin Philips was the best striker we had last season and we have the same strikers, how come he's not playing just because we're in a different league?  I just hope we go 4-4-2 with Benitez starting and try to be positive otherwise it'll be dull dull dull.  I've put 1-2 on my predictascore but I have no idea how we might score two goals in 90 minutes.  I get the feeling we're this season's West Brom, playing nicey nice stuff but no end product.

Have to agree re watching stuffings by the top teams, it does get dull watching your team playing stifling 4-5-1s for a draw at home, to be honest life in the championship is much more fun.

[tomtom]

Hey Nai, any thoughts for the Hull v Birmingham game on Sat? Unfortunately its not my turn to go this week.. I guess its already a 6 pointer - though my feelings are it'll be a 1:1 draw...

I reckon you're lucky to miss it too, suspect it'll be last up on MOTD.  Mcfadden's out for us and Eck seems intent on persevering with O'Conner up front.  I don't understand this, if Kevin Philips was the best striker we had last season and we have the same strikers, how come he's not playing just because we're in a different league?  I just hope we go 4-4-2 with Benitez starting and try to be positive otherwise it'll be dull dull dull.  I've put 1-2 on my predictascore but I have no idea how we might score two goals in 90 minutes.  I get the feeling we're this season's West Brom, playing nicey nice stuff but no end product.

Have to agree re watching stuffings by the top teams, it does get dull watching your team playing stifling 4-5-1s for a draw at home, to be honest life in the championship is much more fun.

The BBC match review opens with: "For the first time in the Premier League, Phil Brown's Hull, who hold the worst defensive record in the top flight so far, host Birmingham - one of the sides with the least effective attacks." 

[nai]

you never know, both sides should fancy it so maybe they'll have a good go at each other and it'll end up being a 3-4 classic.

\optimist

[butters]

... to be honest life in the championship is much more fun.

As an Ipswich fan I really must dispute this on our current form... 

[Jaspersharpe]

It's better than League 1! 

"Doo doo doo, it's Nigel Mediocre......" http://bit.ly/wmerd

[nai]

As an Ipswich fan I really must dispute this on our current form... 

Any sign of things improving?

I always look for a fancied championship team starting poorly and often have a bet, Ipswich would fit the bill this year although 12-1 seems a bit miserly.

[butters]

As an Ipswich fan I really must dispute this on our current form... 

Any sign of things improving?

All in all I don't think things are quite as bad as they seem but it's not the start that I was hoping for. Keane has already gone on record as saying that we are not a team at the minute and bringing in three players on deadline day won't have helped really so we probably have another couple of weeks at least of getting the team working together before things improve.

The main problem we have as usual is that we are leaking goals like a bloody sieve - it has always been the Ipswich way to give the opposition a soft goal it seems and consecutive managers have tried to rectify the problem and have failed. A decent centre back to organise things would go a long way in that respect and there is talk of various players being brought in on loan but for now nothing is happening.

Getting Norris back from injury will also be a huge bonus but that is unlikely to happen before Christmas and Civelli is due back around the same time or maybe sooner by all accounts - from the few games he played last year before his knee injury he looked a really good player - quick and naturally left sided. 

[tomtom]

watched Hull Brum on a stream - was better game than I thought - but we collapsed in the second half.. could have gone either way at some points I felt, but deserved result given the 2nd half... I am now in search of a large vat of alcohol to try and remove the pain... 

[nai]

we collapsed in the second half..

Was  that after we went 4-4-2?

The defending for the goal was terrible, O'Connor didn't even move, just stood and jumped.  Benitez looked good, if a little selfish.  You should have had a pen for that challenge on Hunt though.

I am now in search of a large vat of alcohol to try and remove the pain... 

At least you didn't have a 2 hour drive before you could start....

[tomtom]

we collapsed in the second half..

Was  that after we went 4-4-2?

The defending for the goal was terrible, O'Connor didn't even move, just stood and jumped.  Benitez looked good, if a little selfish.  You should have had a pen for that challenge on Hunt though.

At least you didn't have a 2 hour drive before you could start....

Were you at the game Nai?

Much talk of Brown getting the chop now... on the message boards most of the brown defenders have now changed. I think the stats are 1 win in 29 league games (that may be 15 not 29,...) and whats most worrying is the lack of team spirit or get up and go. Aside from Hunt, Geo and the new forwards we look half arsed 

(Edit - just checked Browns 20:1 for next manager fired... good odds..)

Anyway, looking forward to listening to the Manc Derby - could be a real watershed if City win. I love the way old red face is getting all a fluster about it! I'd love it, just love it.....

[Falling Down]

Here's hoping!  It's going to be really tough though.

[Falling Down]

4 minutes added time and Owen scores in the 96th minute. How does that work then?? 

[tomtom]

4 minutes added time and Owen scores in the 96th minute. How does that work then?? 

Ref had his red underpants on as usual.
New money, old rules.... shame old red face always seems to eek out more time etc.. at Old Trafford. Sounds like a cracking game though - looking forward to MOTD2

[Sloper]

4 minutes added time and Owen scores in the 96th minute. How does that work then?? 

Didn't they allow the Blue Mancs to score in extra time then?  Not a football follower but I'd say that if your side don't win in extra time it's because they weren't good enough.

Football is not like Rugby where if you're camped on the opponents try line extra time will be a real advantage to you and not to them. (ok if you're down to 9 men then maybe but otherwise not)

Anyway back on topic, they should use the same system as used in Rugby and stop the game clock when there's 'time off' that way when the clock hits 80 minutes it goes red and when the ball goes dead the match ends.

[tomtom]

4 minutes added time and Owen scores in the 96th minute. How does that work then?? 

Didn't they allow the Blue Mancs to score in extra time then?  Not a football follower but I'd say that if your side don't win in extra time it's because they weren't good enough.

Football is not like Rugby where if you're camped on the opponents try line extra time will be a real advantage to you and not to them. (ok if you're down to 9 men then maybe but otherwise not)

Anyway back on topic, they should use the same system as used in Rugby and stop the game clock when there's 'time off' that way when the clock hits 80 minutes it goes red and when the ball goes dead the match ends.

The controversy is that only 4 extra minutes were indicated to be added to the 90.. yet the Ref allowed play to continue past those 94 mins, in fact I think Owen scored in 95min 20 secs or so - quite a way past the 94 mins. This is not the first time its happened to Man U, they 'seem' to have a habit of getting unduly long periods of injury time when they need it. Indeed this has happened to Man U more than once before. Of course you need to have a team willing to push to the bitter end to get a winner (as Man U clearly were) which indicates a good quality in the squad, but the fact the referee let play go on so long, and that similar things have happened to them before has a whiff of suspicion about it.
Its a conspiracy theorists dream! Along with the stats on penalties being awarded against ManU at old trafford "Most notably there was an incredible 10 year run  – from December 1993 to April 2004 – when not a single penalty was scored against United in a Premier League match at Old Trafford"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1173959/The-10-dodgiest-penalties-awarded-Old-Trafford--surprise-surprise-went-Manchester-Uniteds-way.html#ixzz0Rfxo2nWg
 
I think its fair enough to add extra time for injuries etc.. but really why cant we just have a big clock and a hooter that goes off when time is time rather than waiting for the ref... then again thats all part of the game etc...

[Richie Crouch]

I'm liking this weekends results which see Woolton Wanderers storming up into 2nd place... poised to put Lincoln's Latics down where they belong amongst the also-rans 

[butters]

From my understanding after listening to 5Live most of the afternoon the four minutes extra time is the minimum time to be added on. On top of the four minutes minimum to play there was an additional one minute added on for the goal (and subsequent celebration?) and a further 30 seconds for the substitution (Andersen) all of which happened after the time to be added on had been indicated. Owen scored on 95.20 according to tomtom so there was at least another one minute and 20 seconds play due after that (20 seconds left and one minute for the Owen goal).

Whether this is correct or not is not going to be much consolation to my Man. City supporting mate though who referred to Man. Utd as "cheating cunts" in his text to me after the match...

[nai]

From my understanding after listening to 5Live most of the afternoon the four minutes extra time is the minimum time to be added on. On top of the four minutes minimum to play there was an additional one minute added on for the goal (and subsequent celebration?) and a further 30 seconds for the substitution (Andersen) all of which happened after the time to be added on had been indicated. Owen scored on 95.20 according to tomtom so there was at least another one minute and 20 seconds play due after that (20 seconds left and one minute for the Owen goal).

BBC timed it all on MOTD2, following the equalizer Utd kicked off at 90:56, you have to allow 30s for the sub plus a minimum 4 minutes = 95:26.
Owen scored at 95:27 but the key word is indeed minimum, during the 2nd 45 minutes there were another 3 goals (+celebrations), 3 substitutions and a booking.  Factor in injuries, talkings to, etc and 4 minutes added time seems a little low.
The sight of Hughes fuming while Fergie had a laugh with the fourth official probably didn't help things though.

[nai]

Were you at the game Nai?

Sadly no, had a second kid in April so weekends are off limits for anything fun at the moment.

[tomtom]

Always those midweek games...?
Being a sucker for punishment I'm going to the Hull - Everton CarlingCup game on wed eve... Oh well, it'll be interesting to see if the younger players can cope with failure the same way as the seniors...  And if Fellani's playing there'll be a daft barnet to take the piss out of...

[Jaspersharpe]

Lehman in trouble for beer festival visit.

Lehmann committed an error to gift Cologne their second goal at the weekend when he raced out of his area only to lose possession and allow Wilfried Sanou to shoot into an empty net from 45 yards out.

Reliable as ever then! 

[benpritch]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/22/manchester-united-goals-stoppage-time

!

[Jaspersharpe]

No surprises to see what we all thought backed up by FACTS.

[Jaspersharpe]