[tommytwotone]

Right, stay with me on this one...

Saw an article on this in OTE a couple of months ago - Neurologistic Programming if I'm right (?), then ended up having a conversation about someone at work about the same thing, obviously in relation to using it in work situations and not climbing!

If I'm right, it's about working up a mindstate / vivid memory that matches the mindset you're trying to get into (ie calm, psyched up or whatever). I know that sometimes when I've really visualised latching final holds and stuff it does seem to correlate with me doing the problem.

Anyone use it, or know how to do it effectively, or are you all just too good to need to resort to Jedi mind tricks?

[dobbin]

Jacky Godoffe once said that the best climbers are not necessarily the strongest or the fittest but the one with the most energy, the drive to succeed, and I reckon that psyche plays a big part in the whole process.

So, if you can get to a stage where you can visualise the feeling of making the final moves, hitting the top etc then it can only help non?

[Bubba]

I think my sister who's been in marketing for years is now training in NLP and psychology to offer people "life coaching" - ie achieving their life goals, making change, etc, so I can see how this would apply to climbing.

I've always maintained that if your on a problem and you think you might fail, then 99% of the time you will fail. Visualisation of the sequence and yourself triumphantly hitting those final holds can only help.

Of course, this doesn't mean a punter like me is suddenly going to levitate up The Ace in a cloud of mental energy but you know what I mean...

[Jim]

I remember reading an article about Johny Dawes masterclass thing in OTE a while ago where he was going on about visualizing yourself in the next move/position and building a mental image of yourself succeding on the problem/route. I try to do this and it sort of helps but for some things you definately just got to get a feel for certain moves/holds and no amount of mental preperation will get you up the problem.
Having a positive attitude definately help tho

[dave]

this kind of thing is all well and good but i woulnd't put much faith into it. afterall visualising moves isn't a new idea - anyone who's been sat on the bus to work thinking about climbing has done it.

i've also found that over-visualizing and over analizing moves makes it worse - we've all been there where you actually psyche yourself out by thinking about it too much, when you really just need to switch off.

i think the best ploy overall is just to be as relaxed as possible.

[Jim]

this is also true, I can remember been on problems and thinking that much about them that I've actually forgotten how to do one of the moves that I'd done before and failing below my previous high point

[mark]

Isn't the idea that by repeated rehearsal you can go beyond the need for conscious thought? The activity is so well known that you can perform automatically and avoid the potential hurdles which your conscious mind can put in your way.

[Johnny Brown]

....derived from the Bruce Lee quote, nicked by Stone Monkey, to big up the Spoon on some sitdown on the face of business.

Definitely true that when on-sighting at your limit you have to turn the conscious thought off and let your body do the talking...
(hey baby..) :wink:

Trying to repeat hard on-sights is often harder than the first time, 'cos you try and remember what to do, instead of reading the moves.

[mark]

....derived from the Bruce Lee quote, nicked by Stone Monkey, to big up the Spoon on some sitdown on the face of business.

Yes, indeed. As Bruce Lee himself said: "It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss some scrawny oriental geezer kicking you in the head."

[justfunk_]

Dude this is a great thread!

I belive in this a lot !  

I often fail a problem then sit and think about it over a beer or perhaps in bed and the next time im on it i succed.
It is "espeacially gritstone"  Very crucial to think heavily before doing!
It is hard to explain but i get better at climbing by thinking rather than training physicaly. ?  

I have found out sequence's at home by thinking .  it is strange?

[Bubba]

Along similar lines, but slightly different, check this out:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991591

Thinking about exercise can make you stronger...

[Jonboy]

Sounds like something worth thinking about.

[tommytwotone]

Recognize...

Think I've got it now - seems to be two different themes cracking off here:

1) Visualisation - seems pretty straightforward, I've visualised latching dynos, rubber gripping a few times and found it does help especially if there's just one move that you need a slight 'egde' on cause you're physically nearly there, but not quite.

2) NLP, which seems to be routed in Pavlovian classical conditioning (i.e. train yourself, dog-style, into stimulus / response).

The example I got (non-climbing) was if you needed to be psyched, positive and generally dynamic at work for whatever reason, vividly conjure up I recollection of a time when you were in the emotional state but recall all sensory cues, not just the emotion.

Then partner this with a physical action ( the example I got was snapping a laggy band on your wrist).

Repeat mucho, then next time I'm feeling sub 100% at work and need to get geed up, quick wrist snapper and Robert's your mother's brother.


Strikes me that 1) gets applied more commonly than 2) - anyone got any experience of taking NLP into a climbing scenario?

[SA Chris]

I think NLP is just a new name given to a set of old ideas. In the old Training for Rock Climbing or something, by Udo Neumann, all these things were covered; visualisation, engrams, etc. And that at least 7 years old.