[Jaspersharpe]

line 56 is a 6b+

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ROFLCOPTER

[dave]

its an arse for what I wanted to tick at the tor but I can generally avoid annoying it too much on most other things (avoiding two finger drags).

I just thought this thread could do with some grade grounding, my general opinion is that Euro grades are out of control but even the locals agree on this one. Comparing British Font 8a to Albarracin 8a requires some kind of major adjustment. Word has it that the E-bloc Albarracin Topo was produced in a whopping 3 weeks, there's no wonder the grades/names are all over the place.

all the stuff that I did at albarracin (7a-7b+ish) seemed about ballpark for the grades to be honest. banks was shooting for a lot of 8s when we were there and didn't do any, which doesn't reek of it being chronic soft-touch city to me. Chances are that some individual problems could just be badly graded, especially newer stuff (the UK is not immune to this), and of course grade discrepancies across the various albarracin topos/websites could be a factor.

[r-man]

Right, I agree that there some soft touches (though as you said yourself, this occurs everywhere - _{could it possibly maybe perhaps be that peak grades are wrong?}) but line 56 is not a 6b+ - I think you're getting mixed up with Alevosia to the left, which my guidebook gives 6b (tsk tsk, you're overgrading, Paul). What Scott did involved a big move from that slopey ledge the line goes through to a dish up and right. I tried this move a couple of times and it wasn't 6b+. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 7, but then I wouldn't be surprised if it was a soft 8a either.

Anyway, to clarify, I'm not defending Scott here, just saying what I saw him climb. His goings on in Wales sound a little wierd - Kook says he told Scott what he climbed looked like a cross between Cable Guy and Jerry's Roof, then Scott told people he climbed Malc's start....  ???

[Jim]

R-Man If you have seen scott climb an established problem you would know there is no way this guy has climbed an 8th grade problem

[r-man]

Jim, this is the very reason I didn't want to rush to judgement. I've seen some very strong cimbers perform shockingly on low 7's (on lime as well as grit). Whenever it happens I think brilliant, I must be getting stronger. Next session they are a bit more pysched and less tired, or whatever, and they pull onto some hideous crimps and show me how to climb an 8a+.

[Paul B]

Lets take one case here then. Aeroline 7b+/C in the topo, obviously a well tried and tested probem, the area is named after it. Grit like in style and holds. Sloper. heel lock. Crimp. RF Heel out right. Reach up. Now, take a f*cking hot day, think hard about it and tell me of a grit problem like it at that grade that you could even pull on?

4 separate people all agree'd that it was 7a+...

Supermafa Macho, Techos 1, 7b/+ for a man of your stature Dave I'm surprised you didn't get confused with the 6b to the left of a similar name, after all you will have been stood on a ledge the size of the floor.

I could do this all day... Its not sensationalist downgrading for the sake of it the place is softer than my bones.

R-man, you are correct B29 G 8a SD in E-bloc.... I'm standing by my "Nothing 8a on that block" point made earlier.

[Jim]

R-man, its not only me that is of this opinion.
Read back through the thread for plenty of others of the same opinion

[dave]

Aeroline 7b+/C in the topo,......4 separate people all agree'd that it was 7a+...

I don't know what this is. the current topo when we went (2006 and 2007) didn't have many names on, certianly none at this area. If i understand correctly that this is the area right by the road with that classic 6b crack and someone's drive cutting through the area then the thing you describe sounds like this which I did, looks like s classic grit problem, gratcliffe-esque rock, was given 7b on our topo. can't remember if banks and lovejoy did it, it is reachy. you'd have to be tripping to give it 7b+/c in a topo.

Supermafa Macho, Techos 1, 7b/+ for a man of your stature Dave I'm surprised you didn't get confused with the 6b to the left of a similar name, after all you will have been stood on a ledge the size of the floor.

you'll have to help me out here, the name's familiar but I can't place it. is this the basic looking thing with a terrible sloping topout, next to a 6b line of nice jugs up and arete/prow with a similarly terrible topout?

[r-man]

R-man, you are correct B29 G 8a SD in E-bloc.... I'm standing by my "Nothing 8a on that block" point made earlier.

Whatever Trevor. You could well be right, I just want to be clear I didn't fail on a 6b+...

I could also name some hard for the grade problems.
A Ciegas I thought was desperate for 7a+.
Boulder 44 at Arrastradero (in the Ebloc) gets 7a but felt every bit 7b.
Aristronauta (the left leaning one) was pretty stout for 7a+ - I see it got 7b in the free topo.

So there are some soft ones, but there are some tough ones too. Seems pretty normal to me.

Jim, I don't really care how many opinions there are. 

[dave]

A Ciegas I thought was desperate for 7a+.

that was 7b+ when we were there, and pretty fair for the grade!

[Paul B]

Aeroline 7b+/C in the topo,......4 separate people all agree'd that it was 7a+...

I don't know what this is. the current topo when we went (2006 and 2007) didn't have many names on, certianly none at this area. If i understand correctly that this is the area right by the road with that classic 6b crack and someone's drive cutting through the area then the thing you describe sounds like this which I did, looks like s classic grit problem, gratcliffe-esque rock, was given 7b on our topo. can't remember if banks and lovejoy did it, it is reachy. you'd have to be tripping to give it 7b+/c in a topo.

You've got it.... 7b+/C! Reachy? I'm guessing bad sequence.  Now turn round and look at the 8a+ prow, still adding up?

you'll have to help me out here, the name's familiar but I can't place it. is this the basic looking thing with a terrible sloping topout, next to a 6b line of nice jugs up and arete/prow with a similarly terrible topout?

Have you got a phobia of putting your foot up and turning your left hand? Yes thats the right problem.

I have to admit R-man there are actually a few things that are graded correctly yes. 

[r-man]

Supermafa Macho, Techos 1, 7b/+ for a man of your stature Dave I'm surprised you didn't get confused with the 6b to the left of a similar name, after all you will have been stood on a ledge the size of the floor.

Just read this. Paul, if you think this is 6b, you should be climbing 8b.  Hang on a second... 

For me, this grade was right. I got to the top, but didn't finish it off. Powerful and fingery. Compared to limestone stuff here, it's bang on - I thought 7b+ for sure, but perhaps if you are taller you'd be able to keep your feet on the ledge for a little longer.

[Paul B]

Compared to limestone stuff here, it's bang on

Oh I give up. 

[dave]

Have you got a phobia of putting your foot up and turning your left hand? Yes thats the right problem.

you know I do.

[Doylo]

I've seen some very strong cimbers perform shockingly on low 7's (on lime as well as grit).

I haven't. Not people who crush 8b in a sesh.

[Paul B]

I forgot to mention that nobody Spanish actually seems to come and climb if the forecast is anything other than SPF 25 worthy.

[Johnny Brown]

I haven't. Not people who crush 8b in a sesh.

So you've never been to font? !!

[Doylo]

I haven't. Not people who crush 8b in a sesh.

So you've never been to font? !!

Not with anyone that good. I'm sure Ty didn't cock up many 7a+s though when he was there.

[Jaspersharpe]

Not with anyone that good. I'm sure Ty didn't cock up many 7a+s though when he was there.

.........which, lest we forget, is the type of level we're talking about here. Whether or not you climbed a soft 8A in Spain or whether that problem is actually 8A or 7C it's still a whole world away from climbing claiming The Ace in a session.

Scott is not a bad climber. I'm sure given the right problem and the right amount of dedication and training he could probably climb 8A. I'm even more sure that he hasn't climbed Malc's Start, The Ace, Snatch Sitter (in 19 degree heat), Hooligan Start, done all the moves on Louis Armstrong (when no one was looking) or flashed The Joker and The Promise.

Just to keep things in perspective like.......

[Fultonius]

Ty did mention struggling on Le Joker at Cuvier....

Also a certain 8B+ climbing welsh dude was at Dumby the other day, struggling to do Slap Happy - a "basic" Font 7A. I'm sure he's a beast (he was asking for beta on Supersize Me, 8B) but we shouldn't jump to conclusions just because we've seen people struggle on easy stuff.

On the other hand, said welsh strong dude has an impressive, corroborated and witnessed list of hard ascents in the past.....

[jamie]

If people want some more info on which lines are which in Albarracin there are some good pictures identifying them on this blog, including one of Aeroline.

http://www.increasingthecalibre.blogspot.com/

[highrepute]

Ty did mention struggling on Le Joker at Cuvier....

I noticed that too in his blog. However, I don't know if it was his first go (can't see him coming back to repeat a 7a), but he came over a did in trainers (he gave them a good brush before jumping on), while we were there.

[Fiend]

7Also a certain 8B+ climbing welsh dude was at Dumby the other day, struggling to do Slap Happy - a "basic" Font 7A.

  (sorry chummer), is Slap Happy (the standard way not the low start) really V6 (7a)? It felt easier than Mugsy, I'd put it around hard V4 or V5 and Mugsy hard V5 or V6...

[willackers]

7Also a certain 8B+ climbing welsh dude was at Dumby the other day, struggling to do Slap Happy - a "basic" Font 7A.

  (sorry chummer), is Slap Happy (the standard way not the low start) really V6 (7a)? It felt easier than Mugsy, I'd put it around hard V4 or V5 and Mugsy hard V5 or V6...

Yes!

It takes some people ages to send that problem!

[Fiend]

So consensus is that it's harder than Mugsy (which is Font 6c+ therefore V5)??

How perculiar.