[Johnny Brown]

I prefer Dave's slug ruler. You've got to remember that not only are they all discrete scales, there isn't even a standard version of one scale. Everyone has a single version they think is right, but it can't be calibrated to check.

[Yossarian]

I'm not 100% convinced. Grade scales derived in one area to accurately describe the difficulty of problems (similar style) there are likely to be more appropriate than others derived from something else. Your language anaology doesn't hold true; there are certain words within languages that DO NOT have a direct translation, just like 7b+ between V and Font.

The language analogy isn't brilliant. I think inches and centimetres would be more appropriate. 12" doesn't have a direct translation in cm, does that make it a less valid measurement?

On the contrary. 12" is the pr0n equivalent of 8a. Can you imagine Ron Jeremy boasting about his 30.69cm cock? 

[Houdini]

He wouldn't.


Rons' chap is a well-polished 9 3/4".  It's none of your business how I know this.  Ron takes the 7C tick.

[fatboySlimfast]

jeez

[Offwidth]

I'm happy on balance that we used V grades, although it was always a tricky decision.

1) Most people buying the book are not primarily boulderers, I suspect the modal purchaser is an HVS leader who
boulders occasionally. The target audience is crucial... For the same reason Ru was right to use Font grades.
2) Those from a lower grade chuffing background often want UK trad grades for boulder problems as they understand
these grades.
3) The confusion between 6A and 6a is real and more of an issue than that of keen boulderers translating.
4) As a relatively experienced climber I've learnt never to trust Font grades below 6 in Font.  They only make sense if
you climb old unpopular and unpolished problems and take pof use into account; all in the context of a reluctance to
regrade. This is important since in my favourite highball areas on my favorite graded circuits (ranged around AD+) you
can be on an irreversible extreme solo before you know it. The 'Font 5 desperates' legend is overblown but does apply
(some harder graded problems of exactly the same style can be way easier).
5) The idea of a type of grade suiting a particular rock type is idiotic.
6) In my 20 odd years that I've known Sloper be publicly strident on things, we must be right if he says not.

[clm]

point i was making is that using different grading systems is possible if not necessarily the easiest to do. Old duffers can cope with using cm even though their minds tick in inches. A word without direct translation can still be rendered in another language (who didnt understand ' monsiuer de..'?). Grades are broad enough to not need a precise translation to the nth decimal place. Stop whining.
Is bouldering meant to be fun? 

[Houdini]

As much as I think Jasper would have 1000% less to say about the nature of V12 if he were cruising them at will, I can't help thinking that it's odd to go w/ a US system in Europe, mostly as it's unlikely that the people establishing the problems nevermind those repeating them will have any 1st hand experience of wtf.

Lovejoy's right: if you can't translate in a trice on the hop, you're scum (pure and simple) & should be beaten to death in the gutter and urinated upon - through an erection - for the good of humankind.

I'm right, yeah?

[lagerstarfish]

That's what grades are - badly counted sheep.

Shirley grades are the numbers arrived at by counting sheep badly? Counting badly in French (lots of cool sounding untroubled Gallic shruggish sounds as count is lost) so much nicer to my ears than someone counting in an American accent.

[tomtom]

That's what grades are - badly counted sheep.

Shirley grades are the numbers arrived at by counting sheep badly? Counting badly in French (lots of cool sounding untroubled Gallic shruggish sounds as count is lost) so much nicer to my ears than someone counting in an American accent.

I thought doodlebugs were the new thing? 

[lagerstarfish]

That's what grades are - badly counted sheep.

Shirley grades are the numbers arrived at by counting sheep badly? Counting badly in French (lots of cool sounding untroubled Gallic shruggish sounds as count is lost) so much nicer to my ears than someone counting in an American accent.

I thought doodlebugs were the new thing? 

Doodle bug grades are the London version of the American dollar based V grade.

[Jaspersharpe]

As much as I think Jasper would have 1000% less to say about the nature of V12 if he were cruising them at will

My last post on this godforsaken thread was on page 2 you cunt. But for the record, I hate V0 as much, if not more than V12 and V8+ is just plain wrong. So lip it.

[Sloper]

An old guide from colorado has separate grades at Smith Rocks, Jousha Tree and Phoenix.

[Houdini]

C'mon Jasper, you've been banging this drum over a billion threads 


As a bean counter you should know, 3 beans = 3 beans, it doesn't matter if they're green or brown.


I'm w/ you btw, boulderers in Finland use font grades because it's local, cross referencing w/ font is easy.  Their rock is almost all granite.

[cowboyhat]

I can't help thinking that it's odd to go w/ a US system in Europe, mostly as it's unlikely that the people establishing the problems nevermind those repeating them will have any 1st hand experience of wtf.

This is the exact reason I used campaigning against V grades in the Castle. None of the setters have a clue what is going on, they've replaced English 4a, b c with V0- etc. Nevermind what the actual grading is like now, and getting it wrong is one thing but lack of consistency of any kind throughout the centre because they can't even decide between them what they are aiming at. God I could go on about this for ages.

If you are reading this and you work in the Castle you probably already know what I think but here's a reminder:

JUST GIVE UP.



Can't wait for the new Froggage guide though, its bound to be amazing.

[dave]

Imagine how irritating the new guide would be if instead of being arsed to type "with", Grimer just typed "w/". Everyone would think he was a tw/.

[Johnny Brown]

What's a twith?

[Houdini]

It's a type of scrotal mould found predominantly in Yorkshire.

[Paul B]

If you are reading this and you work in the Castle you probably already know what I think but here's a reminder:

JUST GIVE UP.

I got into trouble in the Castle for getting changed outside of the changing rooms. Its not as if I went fully buff nekked either. Now that does deserve the  symobl

[i.munro]

Doodle bug grades are the London version of the American dollar based V grade.

  & I thought nonbody read my witterings

[grumpycrumpy]

3) The confusion between 6A and 6a is real and more of an issue than that of keen boulderers translating.

Is it ? ..... Most things graded 6a are normally preceded by an E grade and followed by a route length  , all things graded 6A aren't ..... Where's the confusion ? ......

[Jaspersharpe]

That's too complicated for the Cocktalk masses. Apparently.

[cofe]

it's phonetically challenging for scousers too: 6, eh? eh? eh?

[Offwidth]

"That's too complicated for the Cocktalk masses. Apparently." A bit more than that, some people dont even use the internet.

How do you choose between causing a group of people to struggle in several possible respects or a smaller subset of another but better informed group who will get annoyed but who can easily translate? At least the decision gives good bitching opportunities.

[Jaspersharpe]

A bit more than that, some people dont even use the internet.

Now you're just being silly. 

[Offwidth]

I know. In my defense I blame the guide, it just won't let me feed my internet addiction properly. All this climbing means you meet real people on real crags. Its such a shock being on real rock I start hallucinating and  I think I hear things like "whats UKC?" (never mind UKB).