[Sloper]

JFC if they're too stupid to read a bouldering grade with regard to a boulder problem without confusing it for a technical grade they're probably too stupid to walk to the crag let alone read the guidebook.

Or do you think people would look at Mecca and think it's a boulder problem because they don't distinguish between F and f?

[Drew]

Let's be fair. When (and I'm assuming it is going to happen one of these days) the BMC Peak Limestone guide comes out, Stoney is going to get very confusing. UK tech grades on routes, and boulders (along with Sherman grades), and French grades on some routes. I'd personally rather see new guides just come out with Font grades from now, but that's because I've been to Font, and not to the States.

[Ru]

JFC if they're too stupid to read a bouldering grade with regard to a boulder problem without confusing it for a technical grade they're probably too stupid to walk to the crag let alone read the guidebook.

Or do you think people would look at Mecca and think it's a boulder problem because they don't distinguish between F and f?

You only have to read any of the grade threads on the other channel to realise that there's lots of people that don't have a clue. When I'm wring the peak report for Climb I still write "font" before every boulder grade so that the difference is clear. Admittedly, since the bouldering guide came out people have got more used to font grades, but the decision to do the BMC guides as V grades was taken years ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for font grades. That much should be obvious. I stuck my neck out against a lot of objections to use font grades in the Bouldering guide.

[Sloper]

That there's a large number of idiots out there doesn't mean that we should pander to them.

[benpritch]

can't believe everyone is getting their panties in such a bunch about a choice between two arbitrary sets of numbers. personally i always use a font number but if somebody says v whatever to me it is quite an easy thing to do a rough translation. the idea that grading is such a science that one scale cannot be applied to another rock type is also amazing to me. i think font has about as much similarity to grit as hueco does to grit ie fuck all.

[slackline]

Why not use B grades? 

[benpritch]

john gill's b grades? now there's a grading system.

[slackline]

Either/or, why not have all grades for a given problem listed then no one can complain, hell lets get the Japanese Dankyu in there too for good measure (that Toru chap seemed to cope ok learning the UK route grades, although I do wonder if the translation put everything down as "piss").

[Sloper]

john gill's b grades? now there's a grading system.

The old John Gill system or the expanded John Gill system?  I love it.

I personally think that Font is the most appropriate grade for all sedimentary rocks.

[fatdoc]

Fatdoc, I think you're getting a bit carried away. The decision was made for solid reasons, I wasn't in total support but the logic was clear, and it wasn't made in a pub between three people. These are not aimed solely at boulderers and ultimately having two identical-but-different grading scales in one book would be confusing. Fashion has gone the other way since, and if the choice was made again maybe it would be different. But I stand by the original decision and the choice to make the series consistent.

Calling Grimer a wanker might be fair if making that call had been his only contribution. In light of what he has contributed it makes you look a twat frankly.

no personal intent was ever intended. just the decision which I feel was not the right one. I dont agree with you JB that the fashionable grade system of the moment has swung to font grades. It's always been there..

I have no doubt of the personal contribution Grimer has made to the documentation of our pastime.. solid stuff.

[Stubbs]

One set of numbers and letters is as arbitrary as the next

Good effort on the guide Grimer, look forward to seeing it

EXACTLY!

[Stu Littlefair]

look mate.

no direct offence intended.

as has been said on the www. by you in the past.. the grades in your BMC guides were decided by a flip of a coin /  pint in the pub.

and I fundamentally disagree.

grit is a weather worn sedimentary rock.. like what font is...

and like sooo few of us go to heuco.. and we near all get  to go got font.

your glib responses to " why didnt you use the font system" last time round havnt been forgotten..

I know I speak for many.. not just on the niche of  UKB.


we WANT font grades for the peak guides.. and the BMC ( thankfully) are still THE defiinative guides.

yet, you let us down..

I stand by the
 

Fatdoc, you're a rude cunt. Nothing personal meant, of course. 

[Jaspersharpe]

I don't like V grades. In fact I can't stand them. They're no use at the bottom end, vague to the extreme through the mid grades, have no grade for 7B+ and at the top they just mirror the Font system. Er, what's the point?

The argument about confusion between bouldering grades and UK tech grades on routes doesn't hold water. One is a boulder problem, the other is a route. OK some people seem incapable of getting this so just write 7A and 7a. Seriously, how retarded do you need to be not to understand that?

That there's a large number of idiots out there doesn't mean that we should pander to them.

Indeed.

I agree with Paul. This needs stamping out as soon as possible rather than allowing an erroneous decision to spread.

Oh and you're all wankers if you disagree.

[SA Chris]

so just write 7A and 7a

And if you are having a conversation just shout the A. Simples.

[dave]

Personally I think the new run of BMC guides are great, however I do think the V grades thing was an unfortunate mistake/misjudgment. However I think its right that in establishing a consistent run of guides that the same mistake be stuck to for the series, it makes for a consistent product. Luckily unlike in the past a full series these days only takes a few years to churn out, compared to days of yore so the mistake probably won't have to be tollerated for long in the grand scheme of things. If the BMC doesn't recant and switch to font grades in future series i'll go to the foot of our stairs. Infact I'll go to whatever meetings necessary to put that point across in concrete if need be.

The other thing to remember is for the most part, you're not having to rely on the BMC's coverage of the bouldering anyway, cos there's the peak bouldering guide using font grades.

[tomtom]

I see on the other channel theres a new debate/storm in tea cup brewing about H grades for headpointing things... e.g. E8 or H7 6c       

PS - I much prefer Font grades - a real progression through the grades with no jumps or plateaus...

[Jaspersharpe]

The conversation argument is a load of shit too. In what situation is it not going to be obvious what you're talking about?

I agree with dave though. I simply choose to buy the guide that uses the correct system. Problem solved.

[Johnny Brown]

Infact I'll go to whatever meetings necessary to put that point across in concrete if need be

Unless, of course, they're on a wednesday?

[Jim]

as Pritch said, it doesn't really matter does it.
I prefer font grades as well but who cares.
It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, what does matter is a bit of respect, especially for those that put a lot of time and effort in

[dave]

Infact I'll go to whatever meetings necessary to put that point across in concrete if need be

Unless, of course, they're on a wednesday?

shortie's yoga classes have finished now, so I'm back in the game.

[mr__j5]

I don't see how it helps to get to grips with a grading system if you have been to the area that it originated from or not.

Considering, Font 5+ in Font is anywhere between simple and impossible that doesn't really help me when looking in a Peak bouldering guide.

With all grading systems, it is pretty easy to tell the order that the grades go in, so once you start climbing the problems, you'll know what grades to aim at.


Being a geek, I'd go for a grading system that uses decimal values, so that every problem can be put into an exact difficulty ordering with a weighting to apply a morpho function to 

[GraemeA]

But I remember quite clearly Grimer relating the story of being caught wanking by his mum and being made to crack one off over every page of the magazine 

[slackline]

Being a geek, I'd go for a grading system that uses decimal values, so that every problem can be put into an exact difficulty ordering with a weighting to apply a morpho function to 

Just apply the Yosemite Decimal System prepended with a B then.

[T_B]

Being a geek, I'd go for a grading system that uses decimal values, so that every problem can be put into an exact difficulty ordering with a weighting to apply a morpho function to 

Just apply the Yosemite Decimal System prepended with a B then.

Beat me to it pretty much:

5 grades

easy
medium
hard
very hard
desperate

Simple.

It's not like roped climbing where you might a) hurt yourself or b) totally waste your time if you aren't given an accurate grade.

I'm serious. Why not? Works well indoors.

[dave]

Works well indoors.

Does it?   A total lack of grades is the only thing that works indoors.