[r-man]

Someone was talking to me about these. And I wondered if ukb had any knowledge or opinions about its application to climbing...

http://www.powerbreathe.com

It uses the basic principles of resistance training, with adjustable load which caters for all capabilities and permits progressive training

'Dumb-bells for your diaphragm' - Just as you might use weights to strengthen your arm muscles, breathing in through POWERbreathe for a few minutes twice daily, makes your inspiratory muscles work harder - thereby increasing their strength and endurance.

It is an easy-to-use, drug-free, hand-held device with a comfortable mouthpiece. Within a few days your inspiratory muscles will feel stronger and within four weeks your lung function, and ultimately performance, will improve.

Recent research evidence suggests that during heavy exercise, blood flow (and hence oxygen delivery) to the exercising legs is inversely related to respiratory work.
In other words, if inhalation is made harder by loading breathing with an added resistance, blood flow to the working legs goes down.
In contrast, if inhalation is assisted using a ventilator, blood flow to the legs goes up. What is more, the extra blood delivered to the legs can be put to good use by increasing the maximum power output. What this tells us is that the inspiratory muscles are capable of stealing blood from the locomotor muscles, and in so doing, they can impair performance.

[GCW]

How weird, I just saw these (for the first time) in the Argos catalogue and thought "what a load of bollocks". 
Go figure 

[nik at work]

Argos? You just got a pay rise G, or has Poundland gone bust?

[r-man]

How weird, I just saw these (for the first time) in the Argos catalogue and thought "what a load of bollocks". 
Go figure 

Some people don't think so...

UK ATHLETICS has signed a deal with fitness technology brand POWERbreathe that will see every member of the British Team receive the benefits of a device described as “dumbbells for your diaphragm”

London Wasps will now be using the POWERbreathe breathing trainer to help their players with the demands of Rugby Union.

Winners of The 2008 Boat Race incorporated POWERbreathe inspiratory muscle training into their daily training program.

There are a bunch more, as well.

[GCW]

You could just as well pay a fat prostitute to sit on your chest.  Would certainly give you that winded feeling.

But so would being mugged in Denton on a Friday night, face down in the street gasping for air.

[r-man]

I could also get a boxer to punch me in the forearms, or I could get a builder to use a powersander on my fingertips. Both these would give me the same sensations as climbing. 

If pro athletes are using these devices, is it daft of me to assume they have done their research and concluded there is some benefit?

[slackline]

Useful for aerobic exercise no doubt, but the majority of climbing is anaerobic.  You may see some benefits in recovery times but I'd imagine they would be marginal and you'd likely get the same or better from a good cardiovascular work out (if you don't do it already as part of your training).

Just stick a straw in your mouth and walk round breathing through that, if its too easy pinch the straw harder.

[Houdini]

I think it's a bunch of shit and you'd be better off trying to achieve something aerobically difficult, like skipping hard for 45 minutes w/ a heavy metal rope.

[GCW]

hOUD, you have echoed my thoughts.
R-man, no doubt these devices train your diaphragm etc.  But why not just do an hours fell running and gain aerobic fitness too?

[robertostallioni]

So where do you put your cock?

[Falling Down]

Perhaps 'Tension Knob' is an instruction?

[bigd942]

I work in the medical industry and this is a well documented therapy, is called CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) used is most hospitals in ICU's etc to help recovery after long term sickness, mostly lung and heart patients. Resistance is normally in the 5>20cm H20 range but we've some product that you could set at 60cmH20, you can setup a circuit so the resistance is either in inspiratory, expiratory or both, sometimes called ePAP.
Russians used it for years and you may well see some footage or Eddie Merckx etc hooked up to a CPAP unit.
Is more for endurance but if your serious about getting gains then it will help.

Drop me a PM if you'd want to try it, we don't make that exact product but do PEEP valves and APL valves which are essentially the same thing, we also do prosthetic testicles (5 sizes), hip joints and most other bits and bobs you can think of.

[chillax]

we also do prosthetic testicles (5 sizes)

Excellent, I was wondering where to get bigger nuts

[GCW]

I work in the medical industry and this is a well documented therapy, is called CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) used is most hospitals in ICU's etc to help recovery after long term sickness, mostly lung and heart patients.

I think you'll find it's not really like CPAP at all.  It's not even like PEEP.
These work by increasing resistance on inspiration, kinda like CNAP I guess.

The rest of your post makes more sense though, so it may be a case of misinterpretation.

[bigd942]

sorry, maybe I picked this up wrong, I tried one of these years (10+) ago and that version had resistance in exhale only, later I saw one that had resistance in inhale and exhale, you had to wear a nose clip with those.
We generally just deal with products in famalies as you know many similar products have different uses, so CPAP to us includes CPAP, ePAP etc etc - more for CE marking purpose.

If you take the circuit as below and reverse the 15cm safety valve so it works on inhale then it'll be doing the same as PowerBreathe (blocking off the machine term). Since most CPAP type therapys work at higher flows and o2% than you'd ever breath from surrounding room air I meant it would be just like breathing through a circuit not connected to a flow generator.

[mrjonathanr]

hOUD, you have echoed my thoughts.
R-man, no doubt these devices train your diaphragm etc.  But why not just do an hours fell running and gain aerobic fitness too?

Or yoga, good old-fashioned Astanga? 9000 years of breathing practice can't be wrong, surely?

[Serpico]

I've got the blue PB. I got mine from Tesco.com, and paid for it using clubcard vouchers so it didn't actually cost me anything (at least not money I'd earned).
As for whether they work or not, in terms of the exercise itself they definitely do: I've progressed from around level 3 at starting to level 7 in abot a month. Whether that's beneficial to climbing is hard to quantify.
They work differently from aerobic exercise as they're solely intended to increase the strength of your inspiratory muscles. They're not considered to offer a great deal of benefit for runners because air is freely available, but are considered of benefit for rowers because breathing is linked to cadence and takes place under pressure. This is where they might be of some using for climbing: where there's a high degree of body tension (steep ground, undercuts, etc) and breathing is difficult, having stronger inspiratory muscles might make it possible to breathe deeper.

[joswald]

They work differently from aerobic exercise as they're solely intended to increase the strength of your inspiratory muscles. They're not considered to offer a great deal of benefit for runners because air is freely available, but are considered of benefit for rowers because breathing is linked to cadence and takes place under pressure. This is where they might be of some using for climbing: where there's a high degree of body tension (steep ground, undercuts, etc) and breathing is difficult, having stronger inspiratory muscles might make it possible to breathe deeper.

But I thought you stated on UKC that climbing relies highly on local muscular endurance and that the forearms rarely require more oxygen than can be supplied to them due to the capillaries shutting?
James

[Serpico]

I did, but if you sit perfectly still while holding your breath you'll still get out of breath.
The lungs can supply more than enough O2 for climbing providing nothing (like body tension causing apnea) stops them taking in air.

[joswald]

I did, but if you sit perfectly still while holding your breath you'll still get out of breath.
The lungs can supply more than enough O2 for climbing providing nothing (like body tension causing apnea) stops them taking in air.

Ah interesting.
Thanks
James

[Danger]

Using the same principle would putting tourniquets around your arms whilst training eventually lead to greater climbing performance?

Infact forget that I just said that, I am off to the patent office. . .


      

[Serpico]

Using the same principle would putting tourniquets around your arms whilst training eventually lead to greater climbing performance?

Infact forget that I just said that, I am off to the patent office. . .


   

Not quite the same principle but still too late for the patent office:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wpe10qlxf4lwackl/

[Bubba]

Was Michael Phelps just in training then?

[benpritch]

hmmm, might be circumstantial and not very scientific but spent a summer building walls for crispin waddy and most of the time i was wearing a respirator. i imagine this would have a similar effect to the above device. any how by the end of the summer i was feeling pretty strong in the lung department having done little in the way of aerobic excercise.

[Danger]

Not quite the same principle but still too late for the patent office:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wpe10qlxf4lwackl/

Holy crap, I am almost certainly a genius.