[Liam Copley]

This may sound of a bit of a stupid question OR it may have been asked alot already, but anyway..Can you climb routes which are bolted (sport routes), without using the bolts and use traditional gear, and give it an E grade? Obviously you can if you want, but would people (i.e you the reader) actually accept them as 'proper' trad routes?

Personally I would as the bolts are in places which dont take away placements ( obviously other wise the bolts would be unsafe) so if you bolts were completely ignored then it would be fine.

I ask this because it seems like there could be some really hard/serious OR just generally good trad routes out there if they were led traditionally.

I'm not actually a trad climber but, I was just wondering as I have never seen anybody ask this before. ??

Your thoughts please

[Oli]

I was just wondering as I have never seen anybody ask this before. ??

This may sound of a bit of a stupid question

Coincidence?

[Eddies]

*cringe*

[GCW]

Generally, sport routes are on bits of rock with minimal/no trad gear.  So you'd have to solo most of them, then top out through the greenery as you won't use the bolted lower off.

Two questions:
1.  Why on earth would you bother
2.  If you did Hubble this way, would it be E12?

[Paul B]

I'd always heard of some guy doing this on diretissima at Kilnsey, taking a fall and either a. hurting himself or b. decking, and hurting himself. It may just be urban legend.

[The Sausage]

I think Ken Wiilson got chucked out of Leeds Wall for leading a route putting slings over the jugs.

I don't want to be judgemental, and I know there are a lot of subtleties to climbing that must seem rather odd/inconsistent to outsiders/beginners, but do we really have to read this sort of shit?

[SA Chris]

This sort of question belongs in the poo pile. Sorry loon.

[slackline]

but do we really have to read this sort of shit?

No, you just don't click on the thread (or at least ignore it from now on).

[Tris]

I think Ken Wiilson got chucked out of Leeds Wall for leading a route putting slings over the jugs.

Superb... old skool rules, I love seeing the old timers (60/70ish) turning up at the wall with a full rack