[Sloper]

Look guys, I asked scott personally if i could write an article about him doing this route and he agreed.. I did so, and everybody has gone mental, I am going to get the article taking off NEC and then try and get some more information.

Ok so what and who are your sources?  Spit it out lad what have you seen and who has told you what?

[Liam Copley]

Scott told me that he did the promise, i said cool! did you do it ground-up (i think i said) and he said he flashed it, i was like wow thats amazing ect ect. A couple of weeks later I was bored at home, and decided to ask Scott if i could write an article on it. He said yeah, i wrote it, showed him it, asked him if i could put it on my firends website (NEC) he agreed. On goes the article and BANG loads of comments that insult his climbing ability and suggets he may be lieing about his climbing. To be honest I believe him, but for the sake of you guys I have had the article removed so i can gather a bit more info, or maybe not even post it again.

ps. I forgot to add in the article that there were spotters.

Scott is in font at the moment so I probably wont be able to get in touch with his spotters and time soon.



cheers

Liam

[Liam Copley]

Thats *anytime soon*

[account_inactive]

Thanks for your post Liam.  Could you post the names of his spotters so that this could get cleared up

Cheers

[Sloper]

So you wrote an article with no verified facts, information or indeed anything else that would insulate your reputation from serious tarnish?

You're young and as the above demonstrates know very little indeed about journalism and media (and before you ask the last thing I wrote was a double page spread in sports management and I (in effect) co produced a short TV article on climbing in June last year) but for heavans sake exercise a little common sense in the future, even Mick Ryan has higher standards than you.

[Oli]

even Mick Ryan has higher standards than you.

Steady on now... you might be right, but it's a close call.     

[Sloper]

Acutally I'm genuinely sorry for that Liam, your lapse is singular and excuseable his many transgressions are malign and deliberate.

[dave]

loads of comments that insult his climbing ability

where?

[Liam Copley]

They were on NEClimbing.com, but the article has been removed.

[GCW]

At risk of being puntered:

This whole thing is bollocks.  It's all pure conjecture and 3rd hand info.

Liam- you've written an article with nothing to back it.
A lot of people have said "liar" with nothing to back it up.

Speaking personally, I couldn't give much of a shit about repeats.  Although, I must say it would be nice to have a little bit more info on a flash of a hard grit route.  If Scotty starts banging out font 8b 1st ascents with no proof I'd give more of a shit.  But I can see why it's getting people's goats.

I don't know the guy, so I ain't judging either way. Having said that, Scott is aware there's doubters so it wouldn't have taken much to get film of a Promise flash.  So why not bother?  It wouldn't be any effort, shit I'd have gone down there and filmed it in glorious HD.  So what's the reason for not bothering?  Scott may have a reason that he doesn't want to publicise, thus I still won't judge.

We're in danger of turning into UKCunts.  This is supposed to be the sensible, non-bullshit site.  All we seem to be doing is making assumptions and bordering on slander.  With all due respect, I'd suggest we express a modicum of restraint until we know more deifinite info, otherwise we'll go round and around until we disappear up Jim's arse.

Scotty, please feel free to come on and comment.  Otherwise you may end up being portrayed as the next Si O, which is where you're heading.

Let's get some fact and SCIENCE rather than second guessing.


At the end of the day we may never know the truth

[Liam Copley]

Look, I only wanted to report it and let some people know about it. I THOUGHT that him telling me that he flashed it, was more than enough proof to report it. I full believe Scott but I didn't realise that so many people wouldn't. I know it looks a bit dodgy becuase I didn't gather much info but I only wanted to report it really.I didn't think too much about the responce it would get, as I thought it would just be positive feeback, but the public want proof.

I think a percentage of the feedback-arians are probably a wee bit jelous of Scotts climbing ability and possibly would like it not to be true! (?)

[Liam Copley]

I'm only suggesting a small percentage, as I know most people would just like a bit more proof.

[Jim]

I think a percentage of the feedback-arians are probably a wee bit jelous of Scotts climbing ability and possibly would like it not to be true! (?)

Get a grip man
No one is jealous!
Everyone wants it to be true, its just a shame the (overwhelming lack of) evidence seems to support the fact thats its probably not true
We are all passionate about climbing and want the history books to be accurate
also we want to see some vids of hard crushing

[Liam Copley]

I was referring to some of the people who left the comments on the article. However, it does actually seem that way, as some people said " Scott's claims are becoming ridiculous" and that he is a 'punter'.  I can understand that people want proof and stuff, but the some of the comments on NEC wasn't really necessary I didn't think,as some of them were slightly offensive towards me.

anyway, i'm probably going to stay away from this thread for while

[Monolith]

Liam, with the greatest respects, you're in danger (possibly already) of getting rather a lot of soggy eggs all over your face.

I read that you're intending to move to Sheffield soon. When there, you will realise that you are a little fish swimming in a big pond. In big ponds like the sea, there is a food chain where those lower down are preyed upon. As a result, those creatures have become incredibly adept throughout the evolutionary process at camouflaging themselves; that is to say, they don't try to emulate the big fish and they behave sensibly for fear of swimming in open water where they are exposed to bigger fish who will always exist and want to prey on them.

In essence, what I am trying to convey is that you shouldn't try to swim into open water with the established shoals of fish in a very well established ocean by talking as though you possess the (almost) invincibility of a Great White. The open water is to be the public domain in which you will naturally venture: the crags, the indoor walls etc. Your innocent naivety aside, take stock that if you and your man are to become (and I hope you do) big fishes, you're going to need to learn from a very early stage that in a sport which is becoming increasingly popular and the competition for what little material rewards you may hope to gain, you're going to require hard evidence and a modest attitude.

Speaking second and third person about someone you claim to be a friend isn't helping either of the aforementioned cases. Rocking up to a climbing community where seemingly everybody really does know everybody isn't going to be so much fun if you portray or are portrayed as an antagonist (i.e. coming onto an extremely well established online medium and insinuating that people are "jealous"). I hope this isn't the modern way incidentally amongst younger climbers. From having taught young children of whom many have competed in the BRYCS, I have indoctrinated them from the start to be fully supportive of their peers and to concentrate most importantly on making friends and learning from one another rather than fostering a "ha, I beat you, I'm better than you" attitude. Learning from others is something I think anyone who has spent more than five minutes in the sport will testify to. And even at the top, there will be a bigger fish for you to learn from in some way

.....unless your name is John Gaskins.

I hope that you both aspire to great things and that your move to Sheffield is a rewarding one.

[magpie]

I think you've done the right thing posting on the thread and trying to explain your point of view, Liam, a lot of people maybe wouldn't have bothered.  I'm sure if you sit back and look at it from an outsiders point of view you can see both sides, I can understand it can't be nice feeling like you and your mates are getting jumped on by some people but Monolith makes a good point.

[Liam Copley]

Right lets just clear this up, when I suggested that some people that posted on NEC might be jelous it was more of a, figure of speak to show how I thought they portrayed themselves, which has been taking in a bit of a wrong way.

Yes I do wish to move to Sheffield soon, and I'm pretty aware of the competition in the whole world, which bloody 13 year olds climbing F8c+ and  stuff, I dont climb to be better than other people if thats what your thinking! Although, I do like improving.

I wouldn't move to Sheffield and think that I was some superstar young-gun becuase theres obviously people alot better!

Cheers for comment anyway, nicely put together

[Liam Copley]

*in the whole world, never mind sheffield alone!*

[jonjon]

I moved to New Mills a few years ago - and thought right - 'i'm the best climber on my street', it was was only that night walking the dog that i bumped into Rob Gawthorpe. Arse.

i was a little fish in a muddy puddle.

[Will Hunt]

I like your analogy Tom but not sure how true it is. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea that the little guys can't mix with the big guys. I thought climbing was a big happy family.

I am a minnow. A small minnow.

[Jim]

I've been there when he has crushed font 8a (flash) in Val Di Mello, he also did a long standing project of 8a+ too. this was in July, i have no reason to doubt these further claims of crushing.

Am I right in thinking that this is the only person ever to have come forward and say they have seen scott climb hard?

[cowboyhat]

Liam, with the greatest respects, you're in danger (possibly already) of getting rather a lot of soggy eggs all over your face.

I read that you're intending to move to Sheffield soon. When there, you will realise that you are a little fish swimming in a big pond. In big ponds like the sea, there is a food chain where those lower down are preyed upon. As a result, those creatures have become incredibly adept throughout the evolutionary process at camouflaging themselves; that is to say, they don't try to emulate the big fish and they behave sensibly for fear of swimming in open water where they are exposed to bigger fish who will always exist and want to prey on them.

In essence, what I am trying to convey is that you shouldn't try to swim into open water with the established shoals of fish in a very well established ocean by talking as though you possess the (almost) invincibility of a Great White. The open water is to be the public domain in which you will naturally venture: the crags, the indoor walls etc. Your innocent naivety aside, take stock that if you and your man are to become (and I hope you do) big fishes, you're going to need to learn from a very early stage that in a sport which is becoming increasingly popular and the competition for what little material rewards you may hope to gain, you're going to require hard evidence and a modest attitude.

Speaking second and third person about someone you claim to be a friend isn't helping either of the aforementioned cases. Rocking up to a climbing community where seemingly everybody really does know everybody isn't going to be so much fun if you portray or are portrayed as an antagonist (i.e. coming onto an extremely well established online medium and insinuating that people are "jealous"). I hope this isn't the modern way incidentally amongst younger climbers. From having taught young children of whom many have competed in the BRYCS, I have indoctrinated them from the start to be fully supportive of their peers and to concentrate most importantly on making friends and learning from one another rather than fostering a "ha, I beat you, I'm better than you" attitude. Learning from others is something I think anyone who has spent more than five minutes in the sport will testify to. And even at the top, there will be a bigger fish for you to learn from in some way

.....unless your name is John Gaskins.

I hope that you both aspire to great things and that your move to Sheffield is a rewarding one.

Amazing, I nominate for a UKB plain english award.

How about: Climbing is a community, show deference to others.?

[Monolith]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea that the little guys can't mix with the big guys

That is to misunderstand the analogy.What I implied in real terms does not pertain to ability but to attitude.

A comparable scenario Will: You and your friends are sitting at a pub table having an arm wrestle. Assuming that I don't know you, I walk over with no airs or graces and challenge one of you to a round. Your friend Pete coyly agrees and I think from his appearance and shy disposition , "ha, this should be a walk in the park". After all, I can do ten one armers and curl a hefty load. With only the superficial medium of a jumper concealing him, little do I know that Pete has trained to excel in a serious sporting capacity at arm wrestling and only through the perpetual insistence of your group does he afford his time to the friendly duel. Unexpectedly, Pete gently smiles at me and briefly entertains my efforts in a modest display of compassion. With the ease of a hydraulic coloumn, he soon proceeds to draw a sweeping Bézier arc with my arm from the vertical plane to the table. Pete is seemingly a man of few words and laughs nervously, keen to retreat to the sanctuary of his IPA. Despite the brashness of my approach to your group, you all appear outwardly amused but far from hostile. You offer to buy me a pint and I feel a bit like a herring outside of his shoal.

I'm not intimating that the 'little boys' can't be amongst the 'big boys'. That is a ridiculous notion and not a part of my belief system.

As an aside; In learning from others, I often think back to an interview the renowned art historian E.H Gombrich conducted with Anthony Gormley wherein he remarks:

"Even a recluse, if he’s observant and persevering, could soon acquire – alone and with no help except what he gets from thousands of tries – all he needs to know about physiognomy in order to produce expressive faces. Wretched in their execution perhaps but definite and unmistakable in their meaning."

If the recluse were to attend classes or art school, he would soon learn how better to express a line or shade. Ultimately, and through a series of uneccessarily protracted endeavours, he might happen to acquire a particular mode of expression. Yet it is difficult to contest the fact that his time could have been put to better use merely from being subjected to the knowledge and experience base of a time-served tutor. Similarly, if one looks to one's climbing peers with an appreciative eye, one might soon better their own abilities and begin to incorporate an element of technique or movement into their own repertoire.

[Huffy]

LOL at all of this!!!

[willackers]