[TomP]

I don't really want to get embroiled in this sort of thing again but Scouse D could you please clarify what you mean by he lied?
Details, in what way did he lie? How do you know he lied? References etc.

After all it's hardly fair of us to express doubts over his ascents and yet accept your statement that he lied without first asking for some qualification.

Definately. If people claim he lied proof is needed!!

[Jaspersharpe]

We're going round in circles now but I do agree with nik and Tom. It would be nice if the person who knows that this (Joker flash) was a lie came forward and settled the matter once and for all. Until then it still looks like conjecture even if it isn't.

 

[fiveknuckle21]

 I'm with the moral majority on this one. I think its important to look at this in a historical context also. I guess in the 80's, although there is of cause photographic and video evidence of hard ascents, that it was much more difficult to conduct any real 'evidence' gathering without every tom, dick and harry owning a video mobile or digital camera like they do today. The internet has also been a vessel for extended coverage but then, although i wasn't around, i assume that word of mouth became the accepted medium between many climbers.

I think its almost insulting to the *older* climbing community Karl, that ascents, which by all rights should be filmed with all the improvements in technology (I know i would be if i was climbing at that level), are not and infact expected to travel by word of mouth. If someone claimed to have thrown a triple backflip within the bmx community people would want to see proof and even if it is totally different the point stands. I hope Scott has managed the ascents he's claimed in said style but if he hasn't it's a really sad state of affairs.   

[Johnny Brown]

Right, like we're supposed to trust a "news item" from UKC's premier bunch of vacuous, wittering, and cringingly naive teenage imbeciles...

All hot air I think - OP's been banned and the thread has disappeared.

Looks like UKC are deliberately ignoring this news anyway, are we to take that as comment on its authenticity?

Personally I haven't seen Scott climb on video or in life, so I don't feel in a position to make any judgements on his ability. However with the fastest ascent of The Ace so far you'd expect him to look impressive whether indoors or out.

[magpie]

Looks like UKC are deliberately ignoring this news anyway, are we to take that as comment on its authenticity?

More likely, the thread was pulled 'cause they couldn't be arsed to spend Friday moderating the inevitable shit storm.  Besides, if it is true it needs to be broken by the official 'news' team, not some random poster. 

[cowboyhat]

About the wider issue of proof in general;

If someone claimed to have thrown a triple backflip within the bmx community people would want to see proof and even if it is totally different the point stands.

Exactly, we live in a digital age. The standard is the same accross sport. PJ Ladd burst onto the scene by releasing a DVD not by texting his mate that he just did a switch bigspin heelflip FS noseslide.

My dad, (late fifties, retired, has had a PA for the last twenty years), emails me photos he just took on his phone. There is no excuse now.

Just occured to me; Shouldn't this guy Scott be vying for sponsorship? If not why not? And therefore wouldn't need at least a picture? Don't in one breath proclaim he's the great white hope then in the next say he's doesn't really want to talk about it, just doin it for himself, etc.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yes. If he didn't want any fuss etc surely he could have just done as Mickey Page does instead of spraying it up on 8a.arse and cocktalk?

[Scouse D]

Originally I believed Scott had flashed the joker and I therefore had no reason to doubt his other ascents (I don't doubt all of them by the way, just the nature of his ascents and his flash claims, but that's by the by).
I even Wadded Scott for his efforts and congratulated him at the wall. I was then collared by Dense who laughed me out of the wall for being naive, claiming definitive proof that Scott didn't FLASH the joker as he was seen working it.
If Scott claimed this as a FLASH but didn't FLASH it then I'm going to naturally doubt all of his ascents. I would love him to not have lied and I will personally apologise to him when I see him, I just don't see why it's so hard for a witness to say "I saw him do it". How easy would that be eh?

[GCW]

So you got it from Dense, who told you he'd seen someone that had seen Scott working it.......

I love this thread

[soapy]

after n pages this has been reduced to farce, therefore i think this fitting, what with the karl reference..

[Scouse D]

Until Dense comes out with his amazing revelation I suppose we'll all be none the wiser.

[Johnny Brown]

Dense is in font, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't got any more 'proof' than Scott has.

If Scott has done all he claims, he should be able to rock up at the plantation any time there are half decent temps and demonstrate The Joker for a crowd of sceptics, or if he prefers, a mystery man with a videophone and internet access. I think either would be proof enough to swing him back inside the cricle of trust.

[mark s]

it'll be like election night and the swingometer with jon snow(?) the ukb majority still on the bullshit side.

[Doylo]

Its Peter Snow

[mark s]

  nice one

[Serpico]

If neclimbing.whatever had higher journalistic standards then Scott wouldn't be having his reputation dragged through the mud right now. If a website or magazine claims to be reporting 'news' then it has a duty to verify that news either through VT, photo or reliable eyewitness report. If you're just sending your mates a victory text then no proof is needed, but if you're expecting to gain wider recognition then unfortunately now you have to provide evidence, and more importantly websites (no matter how toy town) shouldn't report it without.
It's a shit state when your word on it's own isn't good enough, but unfortunately that how it is now and climbers, websites and magazines should be well aware of it.

[mrjonathanr]

Due to the reasons given many times in this thead and the others about scott, there is no way his acsents can be taken seriously.
This isn't news, its bullshit

How do you know?

[GraemeA]

Just had a look at Scott's scorecard on 8a.poo and I can't see any mention of the Promise. So has Scott actually claimed anything.

Plus anyone any idea when Scott did The Promise, he went to Font last week so the timing seems suspect

[Baron]

Why doesn't someone just go down the wall/pub and ask him?

[Bonjoy]

Just had a look at Scott's scorecard on 8a.poo and I can't see any mention of the Promise. So has Scott actually claimed anything.

Plus anyone any idea when Scott did The Promise, he went to Font last week so the timing seems suspect

Liam Copley, the author of the piece, said Scott looked over the article and okayed the content prior to him posting it up.

[GraemeA]

Fair enough Bonjoy.

But people were accusing Scott of spraying all over 8a.poo yet I can't see anything there - unless they are referring to earlier claims of course.

Also when did Scott do/not do the Promise. Me being a cynical old git and all that but it was posted on the sprogs site on the 7th yet I am pretty sure Scott went to Font on the 3rd. Could there be a wind up taking place?

[Sloper]

An allegation that some one is a liar needs some serious evidence, end of argument.

I think that the greater the number of claims made of unusually hard ascents without witnesses the more likely it is that people will disbelieve the claims, in such cases the onus is still on the doubters to provide evidence or grounds to on which to base their doubt, eg the claim was made when conditions were very poor etc

Its generally impossible to prove a negative but it would probably be good for Scott to lay the speculation to rest, by as has been suggested repeating the joker.

[Paul B]

Could there be a wind up taking place?

If there is, then its in very bad taste given the circumstances, non?

[brandon]

Look guys, I asked scott personally if i could write an article about him doing this route and he agreed.. I did so, and everybody has gone mental, I am going to get the article taking off NEC and then try and get some more information.

[Liam Copley]

That was meant to be on my account. by the way.