[spidermonkey09]

Isn't Discord basically MSN Messenger from what I can work out?

[Will Hunt]

Yes, but you'd don't have to stop using it when your mum wants to call your aunt.

[jakaitch]

If it's come to only releasing "news" of your climbing to subscribers then I'll happily chip in £3 for someone to kick them really hard in the nuts   

I mean just in general? They put out episodes every Wednesday which takes work and effort and time, but this is UKB so I’m sure it will no doubt descend into 15 page debate about whether paying towards two climbers making an interesting podcast every week is ethical or something

I subscribe on the patreon but honestly don't really check it, just happy to contribute a small amount to support them producing a podcast I really enjoy listening to!

[Wellsy]

The podcast doesn't do it for me personally but I've no problem with them having a patreon or whatever

[Kingy]

Nobody can reasonably deny the right to charge for content relating to the news, whether that is in the form of newpaper articles online or in paper form, podcasts, BBC news programmes via the licence fee or magazines.

I think what is different here is the suppression of the actual news itself (i.e. what got climbed by who). There is plenty of scope for patreons to cough up for detailed analysis of how it went down, the training, background, inspiration for it etc, etc without keeping it all a mystery as to what actually happened. I'm sure there is demand for that kind of content as well.

[teestub]

I think what is different here is the suppression of the actual news itself (i.e. what got climbed by who). There is plenty of scope for patreons to cough up for detailed analysis of how it went down, the training, background, inspiration for it etc, etc without keeping it all a mystery as to what actually happened. I'm sure there is demand for that kind of content as well.

This kinda suggests we have a right to find out about every significant ascent as soon as it has happened, I don’t think this is the case? I quite like the way these youths are taking some time to publish this stuff along with a video and/or some detailed thoughts, rather then just the big green tick and a grade treatment.

[abarro81]

I mean just in general? They put out episodes every Wednesday which takes work and effort and time

I don't mind people making money from climbing podcasts or other climbing media (I never minded paying for good DVDs back in the day). I don't like the idea of news itself being a paid-for thing at quite an instinctive level (news as distinct from videos, articles, analysis covering that news - as Kingy points out). I've not spent time wondering about why and whether that instinct holds up to much scrutiny. I assume my instinct is because it feels "not very climbing".

That doesn't mean that we have the "right" to know what someone's done - they can choose not to tell anyone like they could have in the past, or to tell their mates and ask that no-one says anything. But I don't like the idea of it being some kind of paid for thing, where you buy your way into their circle of "friends" sworn to secrecy. And I think news embargos when someone does something are pathetic (I'm looking at you BoB).

[spidermonkey09]

This could only really happen at a crag where you're climbing alone couldn't it. Imagine trying to keep a cutting edge repeat at eg Flatanger quiet. What would you do, swear all 50 witnesses to secrecy?

It doesn't really bother me but I think it's a bit naff to have (presumably) published the ascent on what is essentially a big group chat, but then people in that group chat feel like they can't share that news more widely for... Reasons that I can't quite work out, because essentially it's already in the public domain. Anyway, not really a big deal and cool if he's done it.

Edit, basically what Alex said. The naff bit for me is the exchange of money to be part of the inner circle.

[shurt]

Isn't it probably just he's waiting for a video to be edited so it all comes out at the same time?

Having listened to the podcast he seems like a lovely guy so I don't hold anything against him doing it. Just really interested to know what's been done from my armchair!

[andy popp]

This could only really happen at a crag where you're climbing alone couldn't it. Imagine trying to keep a cutting edge repeat at eg Flatanger quiet. What would you do, swear all 50 witnesses to secrecy?

It doesn't really bother me but I think it's a bit naff to have (presumably) published the ascent on what is essentially a big group chat, but then people in that group chat feel like they can't share that news more widely

What amazes me is that if there is some big news (and maybe there isn't, not really?) is that it hasn't leaked. That's some powerful Omertà shit right there.

[Dingdong]

Lot of presumptions without context here. Aidan sent his project, told very select group of people, someone then blabbed about it and so the news got out - the big reveal on their patreon is actually more around the discussion about the news getting out than the ascent itself.

But you know, if you want to know more you can just sub to their patreon

[Fiend]

Barras backing up the bantz with common sense imo.

[spidermonkey09]

Nah, I'm good. Knowing he's done it is enough. Presumably the blabber will be excommunicated and stoned to death. What shurt said tho, aidan seems a nice chap, I just find the secrecy a bit odd.

[Will Hunt]

I've no issue with people being asked to pay for media that's taken effort and cost to produce. But this doesn't extend to a ban on people relaying the information contained within the media. If I've paid for a guidebook and somebody asks me at the crag what such-and-such a route is called, there's no need for me to not tell them.

I don't think, from these posts, we know what information was given on the Patreon or whether subscribers were asked not to pass information on? We only know that Remus felt that he shouldn't share what he'd heard on the Patreon. So, subscribers, were you asked not to tell?

Usual disclaimer: Aidan seems like a lovely lad and good luck to him in all his endeavours.

[dave k]

I may be wrong, but I don't actually remember Aidan or Sam actually asking Patreon's not to divulge any details that are given out. I am a lower tier Patreon so don't have access to Discord chat so the request might be on there.

There is a video of available to all Patreon's of Aidan on his project and getting very close, plus there is a short recent episode with some news and discussion.

I support Podcasts I enjoy - currently Careless Talk, Nugget and Written in Stone - costs me £15 a month and keeps me entertained in between audiobooks on my commute. Of these 3 only Careless is ad free for all.

[spidermonkey09]

Broader point, but podcasts in general often have paid tiers now. Where this doesn't secure ad free listening this feels utterly pointless to me. Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

[Tony S]

Topic split into the “climbing goes mainstream” thread of modern climbing weirdness?

[abarro81]

Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

Netflix cheapest subscription is like that now I think - you have to pay for the more expensive one to be add free

[andy popp]

After all this malarkey, it better be 9A.

[spidermonkey09]

After all this malarkey, it better be 9A.

Is it actually 8A+ with a big walk in?

Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

Netflix cheapest subscription is like that now I think - you have to pay for the more expensive one to be add free

Yeah now you say this I'm reminded that Now TV has ads, which is utter bollocks but there we are.

[RobK]

Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

Netflix cheapest subscription is like that now I think - you have to pay for the more expensive one to be add free

This isn't really anything new. Paid-for channels like Sky Sports have had ads for decades.

[jwi]

no media can live from ad revenue. Most revenue goes to Google

[teestub]

Yeah now you say this I'm reminded that Now TV has ads, which is utter bollocks but there we are.

All part of the enshittification process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

[dave k]

Broader point, but podcasts in general often have paid tiers now. Where this doesn't secure ad free listening this feels utterly pointless to me. Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

I understand this view point.

For some podcasts like Nugget Patreon's get add free episodes so a benefit, plus a lot of additional content - follow ups and Patreon questions.

Not all Podcasts involve the same amount of work to produce. Stephen S clearly puts A LOT of time into researching his Nugget guests and in editing as well as adding copious show notes. Whilst Careless Talk is ad free it is very much a relaxed chat (part of its charm!) and whilst undoubtedly time consuming to produce much less so (I feel) than Nugget.

The key difference is that Careless is a fun side line venture for Sam and Aidan, where as The Nugget is a full time job!

[spidermonkey09]

Surely this is the consumer being had both ways, and the producer gets paid both directly and via ad revenue. Seems odd. Anyway.

Netflix cheapest subscription is like that now I think - you have to pay for the more expensive one to be add free

This isn't really anything new. Paid-for channels like Sky Sports have had ads for decades.

Good point. Although Sky is a premium product so it kind of makes more sense than a podcast.