[petejh]

The selling of training plans and coaching to wall-bred climbers with disposable income looks to be a strongly growing market to tap into. The emotional link between 'use our training/coaching service and you could climb x' appears to me a much stronger inference than the link 'use these shoes or chalk and you could climb x'. Without knowing (or really caring... bored on a Weds afternoon etc.), could it be that the hangers-on/'PR' persons/coaches/sponsors are much more motivated to craft a certain media portrayal than the climber is? The financial incentive is there - I look forward to a Lattice interview for e.g.

[User deactivated.]

Congratulations to Will! 

It seems to have gone down in very few redpoint sessions after sussing out the moves. I wonder if this one turns out to be more amenable for specialists in both routes and boulders (e.g. Ondra, Jakob)? Clearly, Will and Aidan are utterly world class so it's more likely just a case of them both being totally on form and pushing each other, which is great to see.

Love hearing that the hardest climb in the world might be in the Peak 

[Banana finger]

So honey badger might be joint 'worlds hardest problem'? Its kinda tragic that its only dry for 4 days once every 5 years

[Wellsy]

Petition to fly Shawn out to get slapped around on Honey Badger

[Droyd]

I feel so cynical sometimes but it's this kind of thing that triggers it! The whole approach lacks sincerity and authenticity in my opinion, and I really don't understand what purpose it serves, other than to actually undermine how much Will is clearly driven by a pure love of climbing.

I guess it's a bit easy to sit on the sidelines and jeer at this kind of thing, safe in the knowledge that I'll never be tempted to do the same, comfortably able to say 'I'd never be so crass' because of how far me fulfilling my climbing life goals (if I even managed to do so!) would be from being newsworthy. And to be fair, everything I've read and heard about Will suggests that he's just doing what he can to be able to climb and train full-time, and more power to him. I doubt he masterminded the simultaneous worldwide PR campaign and probably doesn't give a toss what people on "an obscure bouldering forum" have to say about the work done on his behalf by his agent. With that said:

If the entire point of such an approach is to ensure that your target audience knows about your achievement (which I guess it is - everyone posts the same news at the same time to make it the story) - then it brings into question the newsworthiness of that piece of news, surely? So rather than sticking a post up saying 'I did this' and letting others/social-media algorithms be the judge of whether that's interesting, I'm guaranteeing that it at least seems interesting by having multiple posts about it, even if the only thing the posters have in common is a financial interest in my online popularity. All of which seems a bit overkill when I've done the joint-hardest boulder problem in the world/had an amazing culmination to an intense journey of self-development and -discovery/successfully projected something fucking nails. I mean, if my first instinct when I finally do my project is to get on Instagram and upload my send footy before I even bother to put my trainers on, I’m self-publicising in a way that’s anathema to the whole quasi-spiritual outdoorsy ethos that we all pretend bouldering is about, but at least I’m motivated by exultation and joy and me, and if no one else gives a flying fuck it’s a quickly-sinking post in a sea of billions. It’s as if the ego-stroking and validation-seeking of social media has been co-opted by boring men in suits who saw those shitty little pages that rip off the bits of climbing content with the broadest mainstream appeal in order to flog 100% acrylic T-shirts with slogans printed on them like ‘I’d rather be CLIMBING’ or ‘Living Life on the Ledge’, and thought that they’d get in on the action by actually sponsoring people and approaching climbing in terms of KPIs and Instagram giveaways and charging fifty quid for a yoga mat with a ruler printed on it.

I reckon all of this can be summarised by Lattice’s Instagram post, which devotes a sentence to how Will felt when he did it and the quality of the problem, and two paragraphs to the grade (‘9A’ appears 4 times in a 355-word post, making up well over 1% of the words used; there’s also a nice little #9A at the end), and the fact that it finishes with “Don't forget to give him a follow to wish him congratulations on this landmark achievement!” Whereas Will's reads like it was written by a human rather than an AI based on Magnus Midtbo YT titles:

Alphane ✅
.
Very surprised to find myself at the top of this absolutely incredible line two days ago! It’s been a crazy fun and cool experience working this boulder.
.
📸 @samm_pratt, @aidan.roberts98 for the psych and @shawnraboutou for the line 

[cheque]

I don’t care how it was announced, climbing a famous boulder problem in Switzerland that’s only been done twice before and was the subject of an 45-minute film then saying it’s not as hard as a Peak lime problem with a daft name is amazing .

[jwi]

I don’t care how it was announced  […]

I could not agree more. Chill, people.

[teestub]

a Peak lime problem with a daft name is amazing .

imo Honey Badger is a grest name choice for the hardest thing at Badger Cove!

[yetix]

It seems to have gone down in very few redpoint sessions after sussing out the moves. I wonder if this one turns out to be more amenable for specialists in both routes and boulders (e.g. Ondra, Jakob)?

Is this because its a longer problem? As I believe the 9A component is 8 moves before the 7c+ it finishes up?

[reeve]

a Peak lime problem with a daft name is amazing .

imo Honey Badger is a grest name choice for the hardest thing at Badger Cove!

That problem just doesn't give a shit

[User deactivated.]

It seems to have gone down in very few redpoint sessions after sussing out the moves. I wonder if this one turns out to be more amenable for specialists in both routes and boulders (e.g. Ondra, Jakob)?

Is this because its a longer problem? As I believe the 9A component is 8 moves before the 7c+ it finishes up?

Ah, I thought it was longer than 8 moves. Stylistically I reckon it might suit Ondra anyway.

Staying somewhat on topic, out of the 4 (5?) Proposed 9A's, from the comfort of my armchair I get the sense that Burden of Dreams could be the hardest, but also that I might be sleeping on Return of the Sleepwalker! It seems to add quite a bit to the higher start, which is well confirmed at 8C+.

[Bradders]

On the grade of Alphane, I spotted this from Aidan on 8a.nu:

I believe the collective who graded this climb has so much more experience than I that it would be rather proud for me to think that I have a better idea!

As in, it wasn't just graded by Shawn, all the others who were also trying it (Woods, Webb, Cameroni, etc.), with goodness knows how many 8C+s and one 9A collectively to their names, thought this was a sufficient step up in difficulty for it to warrant 9A. And basically if they don't know then who does?! Surely not Aidan (one 8C+ FA and one 8C/+ FA) or Will (one 8C+ FA).

Which clearly means Honey Badger must be at least very hard for 8C+; although I'm sure Will said given it's on pockets it's not his best style.

[Fiend]

Fresh worms.

We're going to need a bigger can!!

He should just post all of his achievements on an obscure bouldering forum, inhabited by about ten guys arguing incessantly about grades, and then refuse to elaborate

This 

How things change from when Haston was on here moaning about British standards... https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10358.msg171473.html#msg171473

Now a new 9A 8C+ hard thing gets put up and the first repeats are from two Brits!

Pretty great huh 

Is this because its a longer problem? As I believe the 9A component is 8 moves before the 7c+ it finishes up?

Not entirely surprising that the most repeated-in-a-short time 9A is the one that's a stamina plod in the middle of Europe rather than the one that requires the very-Greta-disapproved travelling halfway round the world, or the one that's a relatively short and merciless board problem on rat crimps....


And Honey Badger is a decent name!!

[Stu Littlefair]

I don’t want to be all jingoistic about it, but there’s something great to see  truly world class British climbers again.

I don’t really understand it, but as part of Britain’s “lost generation” there was something slightly dispiriting about knowing we were all a bit crap (Mc and Mac excepted). Equally, it’s really motivating to see Will and Aiden tearing it up, plus some of the amazing comp results this year too!

Will’s coordinated press release doesn’t bother me at all. ‘Twas always this really. Jerry used to carefully stage manage press about his ascents, including making sure the pics sent to mags featured a misleading sequence to slow down repeats. All that’s changed is there’s enough money in the sport for Will to have someone who can sort that shit out for him.

[cheque]

For the record I said Honey Badger’s a daft name, not that I didn’t like it. 

[Wellsy]

I don’t want to be all jingoistic about it, but there’s something great to see  truly world class British climbers again.

I don’t really understand it, but as part of Britain’s “lost generation” there was something slightly dispiriting about knowing we were all a bit crap (Mc and Mac excepted). Equally, it’s really motivating to see Will and Aiden tearing it up, plus some of the amazing comp results this year too!

Will’s coordinated press release doesn’t bother me at all. ‘Twas always this really. Jerry used to carefully stage manage press about his ascents, including making sure the pics sent to mags featured a misleading sequence to slow down repeats. All that’s changed is there’s enough money in the sport for Will to have someone who can sort that shit out for him.

Hahahaha did he really do that? Brilliant

[andy moles]

Only to say:

Honey Badger is a good name! I don't know if it had anything to do with this, another defining moment of summer 2022 in its respective genre:

https://rhyw.bandcamp.com/album/honey-badger

[petejh]

I don’t really understand it, but as part of Britain’s “lost generation” there was something slightly dispiriting about knowing we were all a bit crap (Mc and Mac excepted).

This comment made me wonder if perhaps Britain's 'lost' generation (I actually think it was pretty good) was 'lost' because it was using as its reference point some world class bullshitters?
A process of hard work and improvement which is visible and transparent and which leads to success is a phenomenon that has been shown to breed more hard work and more success for others within the same local scene - it's the 'localised pockets of excellence' effect described in bro-science books such as 'Talent Code' by Daniel Coyle and 'Bounce' by Matthew Said.

Having world class athletes, climbers in this case, with visible and transparent characters - the likes of Bosi and Aiden among others - gives other climbers aspirational role models they can see and believe in that the training and hard work, works. In the generation you're talking about (or just after?), you had prominent characters such as, among others, Simpson, bullshitting his way through life not being transparent or approachable yet claiming to be at the cutting edge of climbing. Which gave others nothing to aspire to except 'don't question me or I'll attack'.

[Hoseyb]

Only to say:

Honey Badger is a good name! I don't know if it had anything to do with this, another defining moment of summer 2022 in its respective genre:

https://rhyw.bandcamp.com/album/honey-badger

Also strong ties to Wolverine ( closely related species , and name of one of Logan's clones.  )

[Stu Littlefair]

This comment made me wonder if perhaps Britain's 'lost' generation (I actually think it was pretty good) was 'lost' because it was using as its reference point some world class bullshitters?

An interesting idea, but I don’t think it’s quite right. Ultimately I think there were two things going on.

One was a change in fashions, towards “hard grit” and away from training. It was seriously uncool to train for many years and I think that had an impact.

The other was that those who did train learnt the wrong lessons from the Ben and Jerry years and fetishised strength. There were too many of us who were strong on a campus board and shit on rock.

Ned, Dan and others did a lot to de-stigmatise proper training and I think modern walls and the modern comp style have a large role to play in the current generation who are brute strong but are also flexible and know how to move.

[SA Chris]

Only to say:

Honey Badger is a good name! I don't know if it had anything to do with this, another defining moment of summer 2022 in its respective genre:

https://rhyw.bandcamp.com/album/honey-badger

Hopefully after the original.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_badger

Powerful and tenacious little beasts. Seen them in the wild once or twice, and like the route, they seem to not give much of a shit either.

[andy moles]

And of course to be the most badass of badgers.

[Bradders]

This comment made me wonder if perhaps Britain's 'lost' generation (I actually think it was pretty good) was 'lost' because it was using as its reference point some world class bullshitters?

An interesting idea, but I don’t think it’s quite right. Ultimately I think there were two things going on.

One was a change in fashions, towards “hard grit” and away from training. It was seriously uncool to train for many years and I think that had an impact.

The other was that those who did train learnt the wrong lessons from the Ben and Jerry years and fetishised strength. There were too many of us who were strong on a campus board and shit on rock.

Ned, Dan and others did a lot to de-stigmatise proper training and I think modern walls and the modern comp style have a large role to play in the current generation who are brute strong but are also flexible and know how to move.

Which period are you referring to here Stu?

[Stu Littlefair]

Basically my generation. Especially with respect to hard sport and bouldering.

Those of us who came between Steve Mac at one end and maybe Dan/Ned at the other.

We went from a period where we had lots of climbers near the cutting edge to a point where the hardest grade was 9b, and 8c ascents here were noteworthy.

There were a few exceptions and some dark horses though.

[andy moles]

Seems a bit harsh to call it a 'lost generation'. Are we talking people now roughly in their 40s kind of thing? Maybe through the lens of cutting edge bouldering/sport, but it seems to me if you look at climbing as a whole there have nearly always been some Brits doing noteworthy things.