[priscilla wimbush]

E7 7a/Font 7b+ for The Promise according to Pete.

Did he mention how many pads / ladders he used?

Dave - What is Blind Fury?

[Charles]

Whoever I saw ground-upping it on Saturday had at least 4 pads. They seemed quite comfortable falling onto the sliding nut too.

Bloody good effort!

[dave]

Dave - What is Blind Fury?

nasty pebble horrorshow right of blind date. done by harris couple of years ago and was unrepested as far as I know.

[Fiend]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1499 - in depth.

Main point being, I guess, that James ain't a good judge of ball nut placements. And that Jack got ripped off, £45 WTF, I'm sure I paid £35 for mine.

Big up the ball nut massive  


Edit: Having watched the video of Bransbubble taking the whipper, it's obvious (as if it wasn't bloody obvious already) where any so-called grading "discrepancy" comes from: James was totally right with his grade estimate if he thought the ball nut would rip and was purely psychological - that would be a bloody horrendous deck-out with ripping gear and no mats. He didn't overestimate the grade he underestimated the ball nut. Word.

[dave]

no mention of the laddered landing on there, which would seem a strange ommision, assuming what JR told me was right (i was told ladder to create a landing over the void to the left of the big rock under the route, which looked to be probablty where you'd be landing if you blew the crux with no gear). can someone clarify?

[Fultonius]

Master's Edge has also been ground-upped by a brit...it seems to be the season of ground-ups! 

Nice one Will! (willackers on here)

[north_country_boy]

Master's Edge has also been ground-upped by a brit...it seems to be the season of ground-ups! 

Nice one Will! (willackers on here)

It was indeed on saturday, good work from the steely fingered youth!

[Rice Boy]

no mention of the laddered landing on there,

Right at the bottom of the article tis quoted saying "Additional note (added after an email question): We also used a small step ladder, laid flat on the floor to fill a hole."  

[dave]

nice, that's been added since i read it.

[El Mocho]

good effort to all the other puns getting stuff done, especially the superbloc.

Just to back up what Fiend said

Edit: Having watched the video of Bransbubble taking the whipper, it's obvious (as if it wasn't bloody obvious already) where any so-called grading "discrepancy" comes from: James was totally right with his grade estimate if he thought the ball nut would rip and was purely psychological - that would be a bloody horrendous deck-out with ripping gear and no mats. He didn't overestimate the grade he underestimated the ball nut. Word.

After our extensive testing of the slider this turned into a pretty safe thing although I think Pete saying E7 is possibly a little low (although it is Pete so what you would expect) Comparing to other E7 7as such as Little Woman and Groove is in the Heart (fell off the last move on wed) it felt very slightly easier, Fb7b+ rather than Fb7c?, but a fair bit bolder - both the above are very safe, lots of runners and short falls, the Promise has one ok runner and a ground sweeping (although quite short!) fall. We only felt happy taking the fall on the Promise after a few 'practice' falls from right by it and with 5 pads and a ladder below (I would have been happy with no or one pad on the sunday)

I think for James' ascent (not trusting the runner, no pads) you could prabably add an E grade or two (I am sure with UKB grade SCIENCE we could work out how many exactly).

[JR]

For the record I reckon its E8 7a.  Though with the disclaimer that I haven't done that much in those numbers, but its definitely a good deal harder than EOTA!  Fb 7b+ is about right.

I didn't trust the ballnut that much, but thought I'd prob be ok having seen Jack wing off it, so went for it after linking it for the first time (i'd had a few goes on the moves on a rope the previous weekend).  Someone else has clearly been trying it cos there was loads more chalk on it than last weekend, and on some "non sequence" holds. 

The gear fell out on me mid crux, having had a pull test from the floor, after it had been placed "on lead".

Something to watch now is that the placement is pretty scarred after Sunday's GU antics and I wouldn't be surprised if the next size up fits now or soon if people continue to wing onto it, whether that contributed to it falling out on me or not I don't know, I'm just glad I didn't take the solo fall onto the pads which wouldn't have been in the right place.

[Sloper]

Good effort on the ascent, please don't take the following as criticism it's not, just a genuine question, do you feel that the route is E8 with hole covered with a ladder and then padded out or E8 without the ladder and pads?

Appropos of nothing I see that no one is saying superblock can't be E8 because it's only x high.....

[Bonjoy]

Good effort on the ascent, please don't take the following as criticism it's not, just a genuine question, do you feel that the route is E8 with hole covered with a ladder and then padded out or E8 without the ladder and pads?

Appropos of nothing I see that no one is saying superblock can't be E8 because it's only x high.....

All route grades are based on the theoretical baseline position of onsight with no pads. I assume everyone is sticking to this convention when they suggest grades.

[JR]

No problem.

I didn't have the ladder/pads in the hole, just 2 pads covering the block you start off (assuming the same as the yanks) and an extra one on the block behind I thought I might smack my head on.  I was intending to put a lid on but thought it would annoy me so swapped the helmet for a pad on the boulder.  (add that into the UKB E grading science algorithm!)

Comparing The Promise to routes of similar grades I've done and in the style I did it in I felt it definitely justified E8 (and probably right at the top of the grade) in terms of E for overall effort (which is in reality all you can do on headpoint).  If EOTA is benchmark E8 (and its been that for c.22 years and no-one's really argued) then The Promise felt harder in terms of E for effort.  Comparing the two directly (and for the record I've done both in very similar style) they are at opposite ends of E8.  And as its a direct comparison then the same applies within reason to the theoretical onsight as there's nothing hidden in either route.  Both are sequency, easyish once you know how, gear is not tricky to place, possible injury etc

Doing it with so many pads/ladder covering hole etc then maybe it would feel easier but I'd feel a bit bold and dare I say it inflammatory giving it E7.   But, I didn't GU and Pete has way more experience in the lofty grades than me.  

Had the gear been kicked out on one of the GU ascents/Jack's attempts would we be having the same discussion?  E9?

Comparing it to superstition yeah its not E8, but given that (AFAIK) no-one but Miles can even do the damn thing top rope or no top rope would anyone be arguing with superstition getting E9 or possibly harder?  Same goes for superbloc.  All it does say is that its desperate to grade all these bouldery, potentially dangerous, super highball routes.

Anyway, it looks like I've just walked my way into a grade debate I didn't much want to get into.  I do think The Promise has got some awesome moves on it and I really enjoyed climbing it.  So thanks to James for putting it up.  I'm just hoping nobody spanners themselves in this craze we've got going on.  Take care out there and for God's sake enjoy it.

[nodder]

"All it does say is that its desperate to grade all these bouldery, potentially dangerous, super highball routes"



Cant be that hard look at em all

e10/7a /font 8a/v11

e8/7a/font 7b+/v8+

8b/ V8/9

e7/7a

5.something r

See thats 14 grades for it. 

We all clear now. Good...

 

[tc]

E7 7a/Font 7b+ for The Promise according to Pete.

Told ya!

[Pantontino]

Fair play tc, not so much an armchair critic, more a wise old bastard!

[tc]

Fair play tc, not so much an armchair critic, more a wise old bastard!

Too kind, sir. Actually, you'd be surprised which bits of grit this wise old bastard has played with on a top rope over the last 30 years, particularly when I used to live 5 minutes away down Ringinglow Road (back in 1736). Never diss your grandad, that's my advice. You never know what he might have done in the war 

[Somebody's Fool]

Didn't you say it looked like an E5 7a?

If so, and the route does eventually settle down at E8, which is looking likely, then yours is the most wayward 'guess' yet. Hardly a reason to be gloating.

[dave]

I think before it got done scouse said he thought it looked E5. I said it won't be a penny less than E8. back of the net.

[Pantontino]

Didn't you say it looked like an E5 7a?

If so, and the route does eventually settle down at E8, which is looking likely, then yours is the most wayward 'guess' yet. Hardly a reason to be gloating.

Quit fretting Si, it's not really gloating is it, more just an amusing scenario. And tc did say E5 7a originally, but then relented to E7. And as for the emerging consensus, surely that has to be weighted towards those with the most experience of hard E grades (i.e. Pete, Ben and Jack - that'll be a possible E8 and two E7 votes then). So it could still settle at E7.

[Nigel]

Fine ascents Pete and Ben.

Two penneth (think we're up to four now!): I know there's a lot of shit flying around about the grade of The Promise and to be honest in a way its nonsense since giving sensible E grades to a stuff like this is nigh on impossible as well as being fairly pointless. However, this being a bouldering forum I think its relevant to point out that the difficulty has been downgraded from 8a to 7b+. That is a massive drop, and as I understand it the sequence has remained the same. If this was one of my boulder problems I would feel a bit of a lemon!

Mind you its not the biggest downgrade in the Peak right now so its not really news. Anyone for Pressure Drop? (cue T-shirt picture of Dense looking blankly upwards at stunning off vertical grit highball, perhaps shrugging shoulders).

[dave]

E10 - pearson

"at least E9" - Alex H in the momentumVM interview.
(other yank guy presumably similar opinion? can't find any sources directly from him)

Top end E8 - JR

E7 - pete

"E7 is a little low" - bransbubble

obviously opinions there covering a range of experience, and ascents in different styles, from headpointed first ascent no mats thinking the gear poor, to thinking the gear is ok with some mats, to kicking the gear out on the way up, to lobbing onto the gear with mats and ladder etc. E7 sees hardly to be the average though as yet.

is pressure drop log these days?

[Pantontino]

Of course the first three in your list should have said Font 7b+ R. 

Pete and Ben (and Jack, because he was a cat's whisker away) were climbing ground up and thus are the ones best placed to give the best feel for the true E grade.

[Jaspersharpe]

Here we go again!