[grimer]

I just had a vision of Stevie and PATrul going on a very long car journey together. 

Actually, by the end of it, they were great friends.

It seemed in the 1980s that Brit standards were around the top. Jerry was doing his thing and Ben was doing the hardest redpoints. there was the Indian Face which seemed to stand head and shoulders above everything else in terms of danger - was this true, Stevie, as someone who was close to that scene? I wonder was the climbing culture in Britain much better then (don't worry c.j.d., not saying it's bad now - or is it don't worry bonjoy?) just that with the dole culture, people had the time they needed.

Now it seems like the Spanish have a great culture. Aren't they all firemen working six hours a week or something, leaving them the rest of the time to wire their forearms up to an electrode de-pumping flux capacitor?

And isn't there a town in Austria called Imst, near Innsbruck that just shits out wads? Loads of top comp climbers live and train there. It must be a super-psyched place. Compare that to Steve Mac driving to Malham by himself on a bitter March day, dropping a static line down Overshadow and shunting the dry sections.

There was a thing in a mag one time by Ian Parnell about all rounders ("And that, my friend, is a full house") mostly concentrating on trad and ice. In it, Dave Macleod said he should include sport and bouldering, as they were actually the hardest diciplines to do well in.

As such, Steve Mac is obviously the best climber in Britain (apologies to God-ologists out there). The other week he redpointed an 8c in Spain, just about (his own words) which Sharma then flashed. With ease. However, that was Steve on a route very much not his style and Sharma on a route that was. But still, 8c flash is an 8c flash.

I can't remember my point. I'm starTiNG to fEEL lIKe PaTRUl

[Jaspersharpe]

especially on the suposed big splash routes

Good to see some Rubicon respect there.

[Johnny Brown]

cRunCH tiMe for GrAdeS!

thEIr CurrEnCY is fAILing.

iS A eUrOPeAn siNGle CurrEnCY tHe aNSwER?

No. wHaT's A roUTe'S wORTH?

[SA Chris]

yawn

[Johnny Brown]

I'm more bored of the 'debate' than PatrUL. The future will soon sort out the past.

[grimer]

I'm more bored of the 'debate' than PatrUL.

I've just come into the room to tell you all that I'm bored being in the room 

[richdraws]

If the peddlers of the economic ragnarokapocalypseendofdays are on the money, then perhaps a return to the dole days of the 80's is not too far from view. Having lots of free time might allow more people access to the higher levels of sport climbing. P'rhaps.

[Kingy]

Bring on the 3 day week I say

[SA Chris]

If the peddlers of the economic ragnarokapocalypseendofdays are on the money, then perhaps a return to the dole days of the 80's is not too far from view. Having lots of free time might allow more people access to the higher levels of sport climbing. P'rhaps.

Definitley be cheaper for eurowads and Ameriwads to come over here, that's for sure. Maybe time to start a countrywide rock guiding company - UKBGUIDES!

[richdraws]

I would just like to state that I am claiming 'guiding' rights on Alex Puccio.

[Jaspersharpe]

Have you not got to climb a bit better than someone to guide them? Oh sorry, you said 'guide'. 

[webbo]

There was a thing in a mag one time by Ian Parnell about all rounders ("And that, my friend, is a full house") mostly concentrating on trad and ice. In it, Dave Macleod said he should include sport and bouldering, as they were actually the hardest diciplines to do well in.

oh my god you've done it now you've mentioned all rounder and dave mac  . stevie will be on here ranting soon about dave not having been on a ski lift or having a chappati in the country of origin and how doesn't every one know who the best brit all rounder is.
or he might write another article in the mags about it.

[nodder]

perhaps cos hes right?

[stevie haston]

Listen,some of you are bored of the debate- well dont take part. If you dont give a toss stay off. We thought things would sort themselves out along time ago, they didnt. Crimer your supposed to be interested for fuck sake, you live in the peak, write guide books and basically ern your money out of this-dont be coy. I am a passionate climber i get excited about stuff only to find out half of it is shit. I got even more naffd off about some one saying they flashed  font 8b a while ago and I dont really boulder. Dont trivilize this debate or laugh at people who want more accurate reporting. And dont make this about me or write shite poems, I have utterly no respect for a man who hasnt done things in the alps and claims to be an allrounder- clear. For those of you who like snow, there is some. cheers look forward to hearing about some good repeats, and people being passionate about climbing. Oh yes I went climbing today, dug the car out, dug the drive out, helped deneige the hamlet, went to the crag , soaking shit, enjoyed ourselves, my choice I am not a fire man, I choose to do no work so I am free. I have never got a route grade wrong, wierd how some people do though. Stevie 

[Sloper]

If you've never got a route grade wrong you've never climbed.

Now take the ego and search for the id.

Snow plodding is to climbing as fly fishing is to golf.

[Ged]

Yes, climbing in the alps is just snow plodding...http://www.psychovertical.com/images/ianParnellCleaningGear.asp

Didnt JC Lafaille climb 8c, or maybe even 8c+, as well as soloing 8000 metre peaks and establishing some of the hardest routes in the alps?  Now THATS an all rounder.

[dave]

Oh yes I went climbing today, dug the car out, dug the drive out, helped deneige the hamlet, went to the crag , soaking shit, enjoyed ourselves, my choice I am not a fire man, I choose to do no work so I am free. I have never got a route grade wrong, wierd how some people do though. Stevie 

they're in the post.

[dave]

Yes, climbing in the alps is just snow plodding...http://www.psychovertical.com/images/ianParnellCleaningGear.asp

Didnt JC Lafaille climb 8c, or maybe even 8c+, as well as soloing 8000 metre peaks and establishing some of the hardest routes in the alps?  Now THATS an all rounder.

but whats he ever done at rubicon? to me an allrounder is someone how can perform at both rubicon, the tor AND at burbage.

[Ged]

true, his peak limestone credentials were probably a bit shit.

[PATRuL]

And the significant repeats are ... ?
Excellent, what is there not to repeat, when as headless chickens we hurl our fears, anger and hatred at those who don't fit our perceptions and conceptualised thinking.
Climbing success doesn't happen so smoothly when we split ourselves in two with the above kind of thinking.
Hiding in the hills, it is possible to be aware of the many sounds of nature.
Sitting at home or wherever, reading this, we can listen to our innate intellegence that runs throughout all life.
Every response is perfect.
Unconditionally i reserve my integrity to express my feelings and sense of what i percieve.
You cannot go wrong in listening.
THe mountain could be something to conquer, however, engaging with it in a state of no-mind/mushin, its so much easier, and neither success or failure matter, the proof is in the efforT.
THought is so powerful it can throw us and others OFf.
BE aware.
 And listening to your feelings i don't begrudge your expression of being, in a manner of some silly, ill taught response to a percieved failure.
How much we learn through falling oFF!
We must, ObiWan.
The band wagon is perpetual and infinite.
ONly our heads are full of mortal concerns, when REAllY its slightly bigGerr than that.
What's this?
Yoda twisted and DarthVader saw the light.
Softly the breeze blows and another wave of thought passes over.
Slowing down.
OneHappyTree wonders why rock does not come with labels and attached grades?
Has anyone noticed the difference between indoors and out?

Trick question, because ReAlly there is none - it is only our mental accumulations that tell us otherwise.
So why SHIT in our WOODS without the respect to make a hole and bury it?
KNow what we are KINGing with before we do more damage.
Go carefully my friends.

[stevie haston]

hello and I guess goodbye, I tried  to keep this subject on track but you know how these internet forums get, more than half full of silly people. I tried to post some good stuff here and some info and link interesting things, if you check this you will find out that thats true. I am fed up with a lot of the stupid remarks not just about me, its mostly a waste of my energy. I thank the people who have helped me on here and wish them luck and good climbing. This forum could be brill but you scare off many people who could help, a moderater would help of course and a bit of maturity. Stevie.

[meatball]

people bend rules or are confusing styles

Or more a case of styles evolving?

[Bonjoy]

There are six moderators on UKB - Bubba, dave, me, Dobbin, Underground and Fatboyslimfast. We don't do a lot of post deletion (mostly just removing spam), that's not what UKB is about and I think most users like it that way. It's an open forum and folk can say pretty much what they like. One user disliking another users comments is not in itself a good reason to start deleting things in our opinion. The wad/punter system is there if anyone feels the need to register said dislike and/or they can PM the user who is pissing them off. There's no need for a heavy handed and patriarchal moderation policy. If this means some drivel gets written, so be it, I can't say i've noticed the heavy moderation policy doing much to curb drivel on UKC.

[PATRuL]

I'm just trying to widen the debate and draw on my experience of life.
I respect your need to look after your energy dude.
I often wonder if my creative urges maybe more fulfilling in other formats, but i enjoy trying to broaden peoples understanding of what it is to climb.
We are not all uberwads, but our enjoyment is personal, only others try and debase it.
There's enough of that in the world already.
When i first came to climbing i really enjoyed being in nature and meeting lots of like minded climbers.
Having been sucked into the headlights of haarder/faster/bigger bollocks mentality, i now see the error of this way.
Its media led greed, build some up, knock a whole bunch of others down - great?
Well done.
We get enough of that at school and our nurturance.
WHat we need amidst the increasing craziness of modern life is a more deeper realization of how we are all connected.
Climbing and climbers used to offer me that.
The cold stares of other punters, infamous or whatever, i recieve at some crags is a mystery (or is it).
I don't need this when I go to OUR places of worship (or hadn't you realised?)
Just because D,E or F did such and such a route doesn't mean he (its usually a man) alone created it.
Nor does regular attendence at some gym or other mean you own it.
A friendly welcome goes a long way.
Recreational rock bimbling scratches the surface of a fairly insignificant itch, in the grand scheme of things.
We must change our attitudes or be changed by our blind destruction.
Where is our reverence for nature?
Ever felt the gratitude of being alive?
THanked the rock?
I hope so.
Peas are ace.

[grimer]

Jesus Stevie, I just put a humerous coment in at the start of a post. I think you're overreacting a bit. Personally I don't know if British standards are shit or not as a) I'm not very good and b) I don't know the international scene very well. The same is true for a lot of people on here - they just won't have the answers you want or the knowledge to have really useful contributions. It doesn't mean that no ones interested, although some might not be.

And as for PATRul I think he, as much as you, is one of the things that makes UKB really good.