[abarro81]

I think ukb is a fine place to ask for evidence. No idea about the problem in magic, no-one has logged it on 8a.

[rodma]

I just think there's better ways of going about it that publicly asking for 'evidence' or suggesting someone is bullshitting on ukb. It just strikes me as having potentially very negative consequences for someone.

Dave, saying ukb is the perfect place for this is like saying the Daily Mail is the perfect place for Mo Farah to defend doping suspicions. Or I'm reading it all wrong and missed the altruistic nature of the post and ukb generally.

Perhaps you're correct, but if it's a joke, then it's run its course and boy am I bored of it. Do you see what I did there?

[Boredboy]

Hey Dave / Shark delete my account. Thanks

[abarro81]

You want your account deleted because someone doubted someone? Touchy mo fo aren't you.

[a dense loner]

Yes I find that a bit strange too

On another note what the hell is dark matter? Apart from class if I do say so myself. There's nothing left in that cave for gods sake, I hope no atheists/agnostics delete their accounts on my behalf.

[shark]

Hey Dave / Shark delete my account. Thanks

Dont be like that - its not taboo to ask for proof and more on the subject here

[Fiend]

 

Rodma, it would have been clearer to raise the Fatman issue (that Fraser mentioned) in your initial post.

[dave]

Hey Dave / Shark delete my account. Thanks

Since you're still logged in 45mins later I'll assume you're not that serious.

[Boredboy]

Logging out now Dave, delete it for me if you could. Thanks.

[rodma]

[emoji14]opcorn:

Rodma, it would have been clearer to raise the Fatman issue (that Fraser mentioned) in your initial post.

Yeah, but I'd had a drink [emoji14]

I did mention fatman on a previous post, as has dense, I just thought people might have remembered that. Lesson learnt

On a  more important note, don't go boredboy, it's healthy that there are people arguing both sides of the issue. Unless you hate the forum that is.

Dense, do you know of any others that have claimed that "dark matter" problem?

[a dense loner]

I'd never heard of that dark matter problem in the cave before yesterday! The thing that really annoys me about Swiss is that I've seen lots of people start a move or two in and then claim the problem and say Swiss is soft. I've seen 4 off the top of my head claim 8a for doing from the darkness to the sunshine (?) from a couple of moves in, that's the r-l traverse ish in the cave.

I also think any times a good time to say you don't believe someone if you don't, except maybe if they've told you their mums dead and you're stood with them at the funeral.

[iwasmexican]

dark matter is the line that starts as for in search of time lost as for this:



but at the hold woods pauses/ french blows on (which is a rubbish little 3 finger spike ) it breaks out into from the darkness to the sunshine which is this:



that breaks down into a few moves of 7C/+, to a jug and then into a long 7C (which is from the jug to the sunshine which some people get confused with from the darkness as its a much more logical and less contrived start than in the middle of the roof)

[rodma]

Good knowledge Chris :D

[Doylo]

Sounds like the Swiss Parisellas.

[Nibile]

Yes, but without the aura, the greatness, the Jerry, the Ben, the Malcolm.

[EdGowSmith]

The problem Ellis claimed starts Dark Matter 3 hand-moves in, from the jug.

To my knowledge, when he did it he had no witnesses or video, but his friend Tom saw him fall off an easy move right at the very end on a previous session.
 

[EStephens]

As far as I'm aware (from spending some time in that cave and speaking to others) Dark Matter starts sitting as for Right/Left Hand of Darkness. It then comes out left where In Search of Time Lost goes, but instead of heading right back into the finish of R/L Hand of Darkness it heads out the left of the cave and tops out up there (From Darkness to Sunshine). Its definitely slightly Parisellas in there, but this is only made worse by people logging 4 different versions of the same problem.

To my knowledge Ellis has done exactly this. He has logged a 7C, 8A, 8A+ and now 8B+ version to the problem which only exists (again to my knowledge) as an 8A and 8C. These being From Darkness to Sunshine and Dark Matter. To my eyes anything else is an excuse to log another problem by starting 3 moves lower but not from the proper start.

[Doylo]

Hmm makes bouldering look a bit silly that...

[rodma]

The problem Ellis claimed starts Dark Matter 3 hand-moves in, from the jug.

To my knowledge, when he did it he had no witnesses or video, but his friend Tom saw him fall off an easy move right at the very end on a previous session.
 

Given last year's debacle I thought it was pretty clear that taking shit footage, even just on a smartphone placed in a shoe on the ground was pretty important in order to substantiate such claims, especially when all potential witnesses had left.

[AJM]

Well it is bolted - unlike 'real' trad you could take a long clipstick.. 

Having only just read the interview, I've just got this reference. It does seem a bit out of kilter with the style of the area doesn't it.....

[granticus]

There is no doubting that EBB is a strong and talented young climber.  See the video of him cruising Brian at Anstey's if you doubt this.  However, a while back on this forum Ed informed me Ellis had done a project at Lynmouth West.  I asked a couple of questions about where he started and finished.  Ed told me he wasn't with Ellis at the time and would ask.  Since then no word or claim has been made by Ellis, despite footage of other problems on the same block no footage of the project... What I would really hate to see is someone with talent becoming embittered due to criticism by old farts like me.  I would also hope that youthful enthusiasm, ambition and the want for recognition aren't the catalyst for a loss of patience leading to dubious claims which can't be backed up.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

In a galaxy, far, far away..

a while back on this forum Ed informed me Ellis had done a project at Lynmouth West.  I asked a couple of questions about where he started and finished.  Ed told me he wasn't with Ellis at the time and would ask.  Since then no word or claim has been made by Ellis, despite footage of other problems on the same block no footage of the project..

I find speculation like this worrying.

Sorry 

Personally, I've never felt concerned about the possibility of spurious claims by other climbers.

I like to think that enthusiasm for climbing is the motivating factor, not what others think, and that the only thing that matters, is that other people are enjoying their climbing as much as me.

Is that being over simplistic? I know I'd find a third hand request - if it ever reached me - to prove my innocence, an unwarranted intrusion into a space that was always far more about exploring what I already was, than proving to somebody else, what I was/was not.

I also care little for - amongst other things - deliberations on who is/is not a wad. Why would I view another climber that way?

I know we've been here before. I've always been far more inspired and motivated by what certain climbers have done, than I've been troubled by what they may not have done.

How do we know if a claim is dubious, if it can't be backed up? Surely this comes down to no more than your trust or otherwise, in the integrity of another person.

[Beastly Squirrel]

I think Ellis is a strong climber, no one can really deny that. I admire his determination and I wouldn't care of he kept himself to himself...

However his morals and attitude towards myself and others may question what he is doing.

Ed Gow-Smith and I gave Ellis a camera and tripod to borrow as 4 people messaged me asking if he is bullshit or not and I thought that was maybe unfair if he didn't have any device to film with. Although he has a phone with a camera and his friend Tom had a camera (but said he wanted photos).
I sent him a polite text asking him to film (or if he had any) and he gave a pretty rude reply. I assume he doesn't have film but it would be nice if he proved me wrong.

In the last few months or so Ellis had become UKC crag moderator for a number or crags including Magic Wood, areas in Font (which he hasn't even been to) and Bonehill (Dartmoor). For some unexplained reason, problems that I've climbed seam to get downgraded and problems he climbs get upgraded. He claims it is not him, however it took A LOT of asking for him to change them to the correct/original grades.

He has also advertised that he climbed on wet rock in a news article on one of my problems, possibly to try and look stronger? Bearing in mind beginner climbers will read these articles, and if they think climbing on wet rock and eroding boulders is now it's done, then a lot of boulder problems will be destroyed for future climbers.

It makes me sad writing this, I really hope I am wrong but it defiantly doesn't seam that way.

[abarro81]

Leaving aside dodgy grades or anything else, let's just get the main question out the way: has anyone seen Ellis climb anything hard or not? Feats of strength, edited footage or nearly doing things is all irrelevant so no need to bring it up. Anyone wanting to stay anonomous just PM me or rodma or someone.

P.s. to DT about proof - if people were doubting me I'd rather they did it on a public forum where I could respond than behind my back in private.

[a dense loner]

I doubt you've ever done a hard move you massive rubber wearing freak! Hard probs yes, hard moves no