Quote from: 36chambers on November 13, 2023, 09:47:43 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 13, 2023, 09:38:44 amQuote from: spidermonkey09 on November 12, 2023, 11:57:56 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 09:45:04 am8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.Where to even start with thisSorry, I missed this. Starting would be helpful. I haven't really tried Ben's sit, but by all accounts it would clearly be given 8A if the first ascent had been done today. Slopey, compression based climbing on grit is certainly within Bradders' expertise! Since no one can say with certainty that a problem is grade X and definitely not grade X-1 or grade X+1, then 8A+ is not an unreasonable position for something he found harder than another slopey, compression based grit 8A+.Apart from all the accounts of people doing it over the past 15(?) years and agreeing it's 7C+.Everyone i've spoken to who's done it has said it should be 8A. However, I concede that going by my favourite method detailed so far: Quote from: 36chambers on November 13, 2023, 09:43:56 amAnother approach I've used is consider the top grade you think it might be, then remove a grade until you get to a grade that you would be outraged if someone suggested this, and go one above that. Easy Then 7C+ is probably correct.
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on November 13, 2023, 09:38:44 amQuote from: spidermonkey09 on November 12, 2023, 11:57:56 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 09:45:04 am8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.Where to even start with thisSorry, I missed this. Starting would be helpful. I haven't really tried Ben's sit, but by all accounts it would clearly be given 8A if the first ascent had been done today. Slopey, compression based climbing on grit is certainly within Bradders' expertise! Since no one can say with certainty that a problem is grade X and definitely not grade X-1 or grade X+1, then 8A+ is not an unreasonable position for something he found harder than another slopey, compression based grit 8A+.Apart from all the accounts of people doing it over the past 15(?) years and agreeing it's 7C+.
Quote from: spidermonkey09 on November 12, 2023, 11:57:56 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 09:45:04 am8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.Where to even start with thisSorry, I missed this. Starting would be helpful. I haven't really tried Ben's sit, but by all accounts it would clearly be given 8A if the first ascent had been done today. Slopey, compression based climbing on grit is certainly within Bradders' expertise! Since no one can say with certainty that a problem is grade X and definitely not grade X-1 or grade X+1, then 8A+ is not an unreasonable position for something he found harder than another slopey, compression based grit 8A+.
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 09:45:04 am8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.Where to even start with this
8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.
Another approach I've used is consider the top grade you think it might be, then remove a grade until you get to a grade that you would be outraged if someone suggested this, and go one above that. Easy
Getting horribly off topic here, but Lor Saborin has climbed Mason Earle's route Stranger than Fiction 5.14 in Utah. This is a bit of an undercover hardcore trad route imo, Tom's recently described it as a a steep, burly ~8b in to the upper section which is a similar difficulty to Cobra Crack.
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on November 13, 2023, 09:51:00 amQuote from: 36chambers on November 13, 2023, 09:47:43 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 13, 2023, 09:38:44 amQuote from: spidermonkey09 on November 12, 2023, 11:57:56 amQuote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 09:45:04 am8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.Where to even start with thisSorry, I missed this. Starting would be helpful. I haven't really tried Ben's sit, but by all accounts it would clearly be given 8A if the first ascent had been done today. Slopey, compression based climbing on grit is certainly within Bradders' expertise! Since no one can say with certainty that a problem is grade X and definitely not grade X-1 or grade X+1, then 8A+ is not an unreasonable position for something he found harder than another slopey, compression based grit 8A+.Apart from all the accounts of people doing it over the past 15(?) years and agreeing it's 7C+.Everyone i've spoken to who's done it has said it should be 8A. However, I concede that going by my favourite method detailed so far: Quote from: 36chambers on November 13, 2023, 09:43:56 amAnother approach I've used is consider the top grade you think it might be, then remove a grade until you get to a grade that you would be outraged if someone suggested this, and go one above that. Easy Then 7C+ is probably correct.I've done it and would vote 7C+. I also think it's remarkably similar in style and difficulty to The Yorkshireman Sitter at Kyloe which also gets 7C+.
well I'm nowhere near tall, but I do have a colossal +5 cm ape index which, as Will already knows, is rather impressive. If the consensus for Ben's is 8A then that's obviously what the grade should be. I found it tricky and reachy but that's my experience for most climbs regardless of the grade
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on November 12, 2023, 12:05:36 amI still think it's the only way to grade something, with slight caveats: I would modify the grade if I'd wasted time on crap beta, crap conditions, or it was a style I was particularly good/bad at, but it would still mostly be about counting. Trying to judge how hard something felt on the successful go would be even more silly IMO.Ah cool, sounds good. Ben's Groove Sit must be 8B then, based on how much longer it took (often trying in perfect cons) than quite a lot of other 7C+/8As. Add me to the list Remus!
I still think it's the only way to grade something, with slight caveats: I would modify the grade if I'd wasted time on crap beta, crap conditions, or it was a style I was particularly good/bad at, but it would still mostly be about counting. Trying to judge how hard something felt on the successful go would be even more silly IMO.
Quote from: remus on November 13, 2023, 08:55:46 am1. Using your logbook, you get presented with two climbs in the same style (e.g. boulder problems, could be completed or just attempted) and a simple 'which felt harder for you?'I'm surprised problem comparison isn't the default approach for everyone. Do something new, think of several problems of similar style and consider how it stacks up against them.
1. Using your logbook, you get presented with two climbs in the same style (e.g. boulder problems, could be completed or just attempted) and a simple 'which felt harder for you?'
Maybe grades should be reduced to have no greater degree of precision than: 7 (7A to 7B)7+ (7B+ to 7C+)8 (8A to 8B)And there would still be some debate at the borders!
Sorry I used the plural and shouldn't have. Elephunk was the specific one mentioned.
I saw that Jimmy Webb repeated an 8C called Equanimity, which has been touted as "the hardest technical boulder in the world"Makes me think about the grading system and how we use it re. Technique, Strength etc