[Dac]

It’s like…… everything links back to Sharma man…..

[yetix]

https://youtu.be/cKYyPs2PeVw?si=s5tTf6MAw2sPtHGS

Sleepwalker repeat vid with the lank beta is up now. Maybe turn your volume down...

[remus]

Looks like you've got your Instagram links muddled Remus, both threads link to sharma 

Whoops! UKB news desk working me too hard. Here's the actual link https://www.instagram.com/p/CzbizYhN3Ud/

[User deactivated.]

Will Bosi has done Nova and suggested an upgrade to 8C. Particularly notable in that it would make Jana Svecova only the 6th woman to have climbed 8C.

If we're really splitting hairs, it would make her the 4th woman to have climbed 8C as she did it before Katie Lamb and Brooke Rabotou did Box Therapy.

UKB: Splitting Hairs Since 2001*

Said purely from a place of love 

*or whenever

Splitting the atom, it could actually be the hardest female ascent. Box Therapy has been mooted as 8C. Based on Nova taking Bosi 6 sessions, they're probably similar difficulty.

Will Bosi - "it took more work and days than all the other 8Cs I’ve climbed in the Czech Republic so far."

[Wellsy]

I can't help but feel like Terranova is secretly some sort of absolutely horrendous desperate 9A that Ondra just did and was like "eh 8C+ I guess"

Like it's on the local seeping limestone shitheap, and the crux is about a foot off the ground, which to me says truly grim sandbag

[teestub]

Fair play to Will for being psyched by such grot, whilst Aidan is over in Finland getting into the sauna culture and pristine granite projects 😂

[duncan]

Fair play to Will for being psyched by such grot, whilst Aidan is over in Sweden getting into the sauna culture and pristine granite projects 😂

Jean Sibelius, Mika Häkkinen, Keke Rosburg, Linus Torvalds, Alvar Aalto and Tove Jansson do not like this post!

[teestub]

Apologies to Juha Kankkunen, Tommi Mäkinen and all their countrymen, post now amended!

[Muenchener]

I can't help but feel like Terranova is secretly some sort of absolutely horrendous desperate 9A that Ondra just did and was like "eh 8C+ I guess"

Like it's on the local seeping limestone shitheap, and the crux is about a foot off the ground, which to me says truly grim sandbag

To quote ukb's very own Jasper Sharpe's response to the news of the first ascent:

So possibly the hardest problem in the world is an unispiring looking, shitty, polished limestone traverse?

Bravo!!

Twelve years on and still possibly the hardest problem in the world? Surely not.

[Bradders]

I enjoyed Will's live stream where he was essentially saying it's much, much harder than Alphane whilst skirting around actually saying it.

[User deactivated.]

I enjoyed Will's live stream where he was essentially saying it's much, much harder than Alphane whilst skirting around actually saying it.

I didn't get that impression. To me it seemed he genuinely wasn't sure; he explained that Alphane felt impossible until it didn't, and Terranova is feeling the same way. That was before he did the good link yesterday. Now he 'only' needs to add a 6 move 8A or 8A+ into the start of it. That doesn't seem unachievable with another half a dozen sessions or so and would suggest similar difficulty to Alphane (which would still mean Terranova is probably bottom end 9A!).

[teestub]

Ondra’s vid popped up on my feed today, good old algorithm. Crazy flexibility in the middle section

[jwi]

[...] That doesn't seem unachievable with another half a dozen sessions or so and would suggest similar difficulty to Alphane (which would still mean Terranova is probably bottom end 9A!).

Regardless of the difficulty, counting number of sessions or number of attempts is one of the worst methods of grading known to man. I know a first ascensionist that does exactly that, and his grades are completely and utterly bonkers. Almost as bad as not giving a grade at all. The only way to find out the actual difficulty is to climb the routes or having a non-crazy person climb the route.

[User deactivated.]

Number of sessions is the only way I know how to grade something. Haven't had any complaints so far (surprisingly).

[jwi]

That's weird. Maybe you are the ideal climber.

I give you some examples. Take routes of the grade 8a+. A level that is very challenging for me, but maybe not at my absolute max. Select routes of my most preferred style, 25-35 m long 20-40 degrees overhanging routes on limestone. Also filter for routes at popular crags in Spain, with at least one hundred ascents including many onsights by elite climbers, so that the consensus grades can be in absolute zero doubt. The quickest I've done such a route is on second try, but one I tried extensively over two months, often with good conditions and finally did on my ≈ sixtieth try. (If there are any doubts, I was in great shape when I did the second route as witnessed by my ability to throw laps without stopping at the rest on a neighbouring consensus 8a.)

[yetix]

If number of sessions is a basis for grading then mint sauce stand at griffs is about 8A+ for me compared to everything I've done and tried.

[User deactivated.]

Enlighten me then. How else would you determine how hard something was than... how hard it was?

[jwi]

I do not suffer from the illusion that I am the measure of man.

[Bradders]

Enlighten me then. How else would you determine how hard something was than... how hard it was?

I can't help with how to actually grade things, but I have to echo the point that you can't judge a grade by number of sessions. I've done 8A in a session and in 30 sessions, 7C+ in a session and 11 sessions, and there's at least one 7C I've put 8 sessions into and not done....!

[User deactivated.]

I still think it's the only way to grade something, with slight caveats: I would modify the grade if I'd wasted time on crap beta, crap conditions, or it was a style I was particularly good/bad at, but it would still mostly be about counting. Trying to judge how hard something felt on the successful go would be even more silly IMO.

[Kingy]

Thread split time?

[Bradders]

I still think it's the only way to grade something, with slight caveats: I would modify the grade if I'd wasted time on crap beta, crap conditions, or it was a style I was particularly good/bad at, but it would still mostly be about counting. Trying to judge how hard something felt on the successful go would be even more silly IMO.

Ah cool, sounds good. Ben's Groove Sit must be 8B then, based on how much longer it took (often trying in perfect cons) than quite a lot of other 7C+/8As. Add me to the list Remus!

 

[User deactivated.]

8A+ or 8B should be your grade opinion for it then. Seriously. Is it not the hardest thing you've climbed? There's no other way to judge it.

[JamieG]

Not to be controversial or anything. But I’m in the middle here. 

Number of sessions is definitely a consideration. But obviously not the only one. Does the style suit me? Conditions? Skin? Grades of other nearby problems etc? Is it one low percentage move or a sustained crux? Etc etc.

Also it makes a massive difference if it’s a FA or a repeat on a well established problem. The former, number of sessions is definitely more of a factor as you have no line in the sand. The latter, maybe it’s just a weird problem for me, or a sandbag etc.

[Dingdong]

Grading FAs is really hard even with tons of experience at a grade range it can still be difficult to grade things accurately especially problems that are within/outside of your style preference. Theoretically you’d grade things in styles you’re smack bang average at most accurately as the scales don’t tip to one side or another.

Other factors can affect it as well such as height/morphology, how scrittly the rock is, conditions, how you personally feel on the day, how your skin is etc. These all have an impact on the proposed grade. Best to just smack the grade you *think* it is and let consensus from repeats take it from there. Even then for certain rock types the grade can morph as the rock stabilises. You also have the psychological addition of hate grading which is a real thing and not often talked about.

At the end of the day if you can somewhat remove the ego from development it becomes more about the problem/route and less about the grade, all you can do is give an honest opinion and try to be as precise as you can and then let the masses take it from there and remove the ego from it whether it gets upgraded or downgraded.

I don’t think there’s a single developer out there who’s never had something downgraded, it’s just part and parcel of development.