[Sloper]

Alicroberts, what utter cock and you ough to know it.

First of all, not all the pro palestinians are palestinians,
secondly it's widely accepted that the term antisemitic does not refer to people with a supposed root, it's a bit like someone saying 'I'm not racist I hate all foreigners equally'.

The facts are simple the IDF personnel were 'brutally attacked' and then responded.  The people that attacked the IDF were looking for a fight and they can't complain that they got one.

The fact that Hamas have refused to accept the aid because it was brought to Gaza by the Israeli's should tell you all you need to know.

[superfurrymonkey]

"There are ways you can stop even passenger ship like that ferry boat, and certainly like our little thirty-foot craft. You don’t have to use commandos with—I mean, you can use commandos with excessive force, which they do, but there are other ways to do it, if you want to kind of preserve a sense of civility, humanity, and meeting the international law, quite honestly. "  Ann Wright is a retired Army colonel, a former US diplomat. She spent twenty-nine years in the military and later served as a high-ranking diplomat in the State Department. In 2001, she helped oversee the reopening of the US mission in Afghanistan. In 2003, she resigned her State Department post to protest the war in Iraq. She was on the Freedom Flotilla and just deported to Turkey.

[Johnny Brown]

Have you spent much time in Israel Sloper?

[Jaspersharpe]

I'm not even going to bother.

[Mike Highbury]

It's a statement of the flipping obvious that Israel is a Middle Eastern state but western protesters filled with righteous indignation appear endlessly surprised that its police and military are fairly tough and trigger happy.

The land is not populated by Jackes, lovely liberal educated Germans, but people  from other Arab countries and Eastern Europe who have never had any reason to trust their neighbours and nothing that has happened gives them cause to change their minds. This together with a trend in the rest of the region, the formerly secular state has become increasingly religious and right wing. There was a lovely article reprinted in, I think, the Observer or its horrid sister, showing how few American Jews have less and less interest and connection with Israel, it's no longer a normative focus for world Jewry.

The Eastern Mediterranean is not Parliament Square so don't be so bloody shocked that it protects its borders and, like Egypt, maintains the blockade with such enthusiasm.

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Alicroberts, what utter cock and you ough to know it.

First of all, not all the pro palestinians are palestinians,
secondly it's widely accepted that the term antisemitic does not refer to people with a supposed root, it's a bit like someone saying 'I'm not racist I hate all foreigners equally'.

The facts are simple the IDF personnel were 'brutally attacked' and then responded.  The people that attacked the IDF were looking for a fight and they can't complain that they got one.

The fact that Hamas have refused to accept the aid because it was brought to Gaza by the Israeli's should tell you all you need to know.

So fucking what?

It's irrelevant what is or isn't accepted. The word "Semite" refers to a group of peoples who share a common language root, whether you, or anyone else like it or not.


And who said anything about pro-Palestinians being Palestinian?

I said pro-Palestinian was not anti-Semite. As Palestinians are a sub-group of Semitic peoples, by definition, the two are mutually exclusive.

[slackline]

As Palestinians are a sub-group of Semitic peoples, by definition, the two are mutually exclusive.

Are you sure about them being "mutually exclusive"?  It means that they can't occur at the same time, yet if one is a sub-group of the other then by definition it belongs to the higher level grouping and can occur at the same time, so Palestinians are not mutually exclusive of being Semitic.

[superfurrymonkey]

They are not a sub group they are semites. The first use of anti-semitism came about with rise of Zionism.

[Mike Highbury]

They are not a sub group they are semites. The first use of anti-semitism came about with rise of Zionism.

That's a little confused. Anti-semitism does and only ever has referred to Jews and none other. There's some very odd use of the term where Jews with other groups from the region are squashed together but that is, without exception, in anti-Zionist literature.

As for the term itself. I don't doubt that you are right about the time of its first use but that is more to do with German scientism than the fact of anti-Judaism in history.

There is a, seemingly, hundred page discussion in Jonathan Littell's, 'The kindly ones', where the Germans have to decide whether or not a Jewish people in eastern USSR are racially semitic and to be annihilated or merely culturally or religiously Jewish and, I suppose, starved to death. You should read it, it's like a decent into hell and tremendous fun.

[slackline]

The font of all disinformation has some information on this (even a specific section on the aetiology). 

Citeable sources that contradict what is written there should, in the spirit of Wikipedia, be added to the article.

[superfurrymonkey]

The book sounds interesting Mike and is winging it's way via amazon.

[Sloper]

Alicroberts, what utter cock and you ough to know it.

First of all, not all the pro palestinians are palestinians,
secondly it's widely accepted that the term antisemitic does not refer to people with a supposed root, it's a bit like someone saying 'I'm not racist I hate all foreigners equally'.

The facts are simple the IDF personnel were 'brutally attacked' and then responded.  The people that attacked the IDF were looking for a fight and they can't complain that they got one.

The fact that Hamas have refused to accept the aid because it was brought to Gaza by the Israeli's should tell you all you need to know.

So fucking what?

It's irrelevant what is or isn't accepted. The word "Semite" refers to a group of peoples who share a common language root, whether you, or anyone else like it or not.


And who said anything about pro-Palestinians being Palestinian?

I said pro-Palestinian was not anti-Semite. As Palestinians are a sub-group of Semitic peoples, by definition, the two are mutually exclusive.

Just fuck off.  You try and misrepresent what I've said and thenm wallow in the sub Chomsky type of bullshit that even pretneitous 15 year olds would see through.

As for 'so fucking what', I'll tell you so fucking what, the 'antisemitic bullshit' it's rhetorical flousirh of the tardo and the cunts who are too cowarldy to come out and admit that they just don't like us jews.  By your reasoning, you'd presumably say that yid, paki etc aren't racist terms of abuse just contractions of yiddish, pakistani etc that British people can't be black and so on. 

Come on, just be honest, you don't like jews do you and want to hide your hate under a veil of linguistic garbage?  So regardless whether you're a moron or a racist cunt looking for a fight; if you're looking for a fight let me know I'm really in the mood.

As I said at the outset the blockade is Gaza is one thing but on this occasion the IDF looks a lot more restrianed than our out Metroploitan Police.

Or were you saying so fucking what about Hamas turning away the aid that the people tried to deliver, cause yeah we'd all rather see people suffer than accept aid that's been touched by the enemy / jews 

Hamas have no belief in peace, no desire to see a two state solution and are prepared to sacrifice the lives and well being of 'their people' in pursuit of the their disgusting aims.  That you appear to support their actions says more about you than I could.

Ohh and don't be drawn into the mistake of thinking I wouldn't say to your face what I've said here.

[Johnny Brown]

I can't stand it when people just take tribal stances on political issues. 

[superfurrymonkey]

"KEVIN OVENDEN: What happened was that there were the initial gunshots of what we presumed to be rubberized bullets. I hesitate to say rubber bullets, because they’re steel bullets with a rubber coating. And then very, very rapidly afterwards—I’m talking a matter of some seconds afterwards—there was the unmistakable sound of live fire, and we started to take heavy casualties.

A colleague of mine, a New Zealander with Viva Palestina called Nicci Enchmarch, she was on the top deck. She was next to a man, a Turkish man, who was holding a camera. He was shot directly through the forehead. The bullet, the exit wound, blew away the back third of his skull, and she cradled him as he died. " This is prior to the ships being boarded Sloper so I don't understand how you can say the IDF acted in a proper way?

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/4/as_obama_refuses_to_condemn_flotilla

[superfurrymonkey]

And Robert Fisk on the nail as always http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-truth-behind-the-israeli-propaganda-1991803.html

[Jaspersharpe]

Really Sloper. Sticking up for one's principles is one thing but blindly apologising for every act of murder and terrorism committed by the Israeli military and then playing the race card is just too much.  I understand the passion but you're doing yourself no favours mate.

I happen to know that  aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB is no racist and no anti-semite just like the massive majority of people who are angered and disgusted again and again by the actions of the Israeli government.

And of course Hamas are a bunch of cunts. Deploring the actions of one side does not have to indicate support for the other.

[Johnny Brown]

And of course Hamas are a bunch of cunts. Deploring the actions of one side does not have to indicate support for the other.

Amen to that.

[drdeath]

Really Sloper. Sticking up for one's principles is one thing but blindly apologising for every act of murder and terrorism committed by the Israeli military and then playing the race card is just too much.  I understand the passion but you're doing yourself no favours mate.

I happen to know that  aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB is no racist and no anti-semite just like the massive majority of people who are angered and disgusted again and again by the actions of the Israeli government.

And of course Hamas are a bunch of cunts. Deploring the actions of one side does not have to indicate support for the other.

That's just what you WOULD say you anti-semite.


ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!

[slackline]

Pubs can start claiming PPL refunds

(Might also affect some climbing walls that pay the PPL  )

[cofe]

Gove steps on Milliband's banana skin:

http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:18fbd167-225b-4a21-80d7-ed0b14007a03

[Jaspersharpe]

Wha......wha.....WHAT!!!???

Littlejohn ADMITS HE WAS WRONG AND APOLOGISES!!!???

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/06/08/worlds-first-richard-littlejohn-apologises-admits-he-didnt-do-research/

 

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Alicroberts, what utter cock and you ough to know it.

First of all, not all the pro palestinians are palestinians,
secondly it's widely accepted that the term antisemitic does not refer to people with a supposed root, it's a bit like someone saying 'I'm not racist I hate all foreigners equally'.

The facts are simple the IDF personnel were 'brutally attacked' and then responded.  The people that attacked the IDF were looking for a fight and they can't complain that they got one.

The fact that Hamas have refused to accept the aid because it was brought to Gaza by the Israeli's should tell you all you need to know.

So fucking what?

It's irrelevant what is or isn't accepted. The word "Semite" refers to a group of peoples who share a common language root, whether you, or anyone else like it or not.


And who said anything about pro-Palestinians being Palestinian?

I said pro-Palestinian was not anti-Semite. As Palestinians are a sub-group of Semitic peoples, by definition, the two are mutually exclusive.

Just fuck off.  You try and misrepresent what I've said and thenm wallow in the sub Chomsky type of bullshit that even pretneitous 15 year olds would see through.

As for 'so fucking what', I'll tell you so fucking what, the 'antisemitic bullshit' it's rhetorical flousirh of the tardo and the cunts who are too cowarldy to come out and admit that they just don't like us jews.  By your reasoning, you'd presumably say that yid, paki etc aren't racist terms of abuse just contractions of yiddish, pakistani etc that British people can't be black and so on. 

Come on, just be honest, you don't like jews do you and want to hide your hate under a veil of linguistic garbage?  So regardless whether you're a moron or a racist cunt looking for a fight; if you're looking for a fight let me know I'm really in the mood.

As I said at the outset the blockade is Gaza is one thing but on this occasion the IDF looks a lot more restrianed than our out Metroploitan Police.

Or were you saying so fucking what about Hamas turning away the aid that the people tried to deliver, cause yeah we'd all rather see people suffer than accept aid that's been touched by the enemy / jews 

Hamas have no belief in peace, no desire to see a two state solution and are prepared to sacrifice the lives and well being of 'their people' in pursuit of the their disgusting aims.  That you appear to support their actions says more about you than I could.

Ohh and don't be drawn into the mistake of thinking I wouldn't say to your face what I've said here.

I'm going to have to go away and consider a response to this.

I shall get back to you, and, rest assured, it wouldn't be anything I wouldn't say to you either.

[Johnny Brown]

I wouldn't bother. Discussing this with a jewish lawyer isn't likely to reach a resolution.

[superfurrymonkey]

Veteran White House Reporter Helen Thomas Retires After Israel Remarks.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/8/veteran_white_house_reporter_helen_thomas

[slackline]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelt as we are making our final approach to landing