[Sloper]

It would be a fair point if it was copyright infringemen but it isn't.

So that rather blows the story.

Anyway Malcolm McClaren RIP it up in hell with Sid you old fucker.

[Davey_C]

Contact your MP about rushing through the DEB

I contacted my local mp and got this reply.....

The latest info I have is that the Bill will return for its 2nd Reading on 6th April, but it is very unlikely to go any further.

After this bill getting through the house of commons and me finding out that my local MP was one of the Ayes, http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100407/debtext/100407-0032.htm#1004088001556, I responded to him with the following.

Obviously you were wrong in saying it is unlikely to go any further.
 
Furthermore I'm extremely disappointed to see that you were one of the 'Ayes' in voting for the bill last night. I would have appreciated an open and honest response to my original email, by you saying that you were willing to support this ill thought out bill. I feel let down and disappointed by your lack of honesty.
 
I have always voted labour in the past, but I can quite honestly say that this is a deal-breaker for me and I will not be voting labour (or yourself - assuming you are standing) in next election.

And got the following response.

The advice I gave you was based on the position as I believed it to be and I passed that to you in good faith. Therefore you did get an open and honest answer. The fact is that there were some changes which meant that there was a big degree of consensus. I was swayed by the fact that people from the music industry and creative arts were clear that they believed that if we did not act now then the law would continue to be unclear. I did lobby the Ministers re the lack of scrutiny on behalf of people like yourself and I was in the debate last night. They pointed out the fact that over 50 hours of debate, during which 700 amendments were put down had taken place in the Lords. If this had come at an earlier time we would have had more debate in the Commons, but the core issues would have been the same. This is clearly an issue that impacts on different groups in different ways. In such circumstances I could never please everyone.

The bit that stands out to me, and probably the most important bit (which he acknowledged) is this 'If this had come at an earlier time we would have had more debate'.

I'm not against the bill per-se, even though I do download quite a bit, it's the pandering to the big music corporations that's really got my back up and the fact that something this significant needs to be properly debated and constructed over a long period of time with input from a range of different groups.

Fucking scum bag MPs, you can't trust any of them to do the right thing!

[slackline]

The main problem is that copyright laws were created when the distribution of content/media required significant investment to produce a physical copy of said content and distribute it to those who might want it (and advertise it too).  The world has moved on and physical copies of books/cd/dvds are no longer needed and distribution is but a click away these days.

Unfortunately this glaringly obvious point seems to have completely passed over many of those who have a vested interest in distributing media the old fashioned way, and instead of looking to adapt they are trying to apply the old laws to the new media and it just doesn't work.  Instead of lining the pockets of politicians with back handers to get new laws bought in to protect the old ones they should be looking to embrace the new media and change their business model.

Unfortunately that requires thinking and more work than the former.

 

[dave]

The other thing about the DEB from what I gather is it means that basically if someone stumbles across a photo on the internet and it's not immediately obvious who owns the copyright (i.e. the image is deemed to be "orphaned") its basically fair game to be used for free, outside of copyright. Which is clearly not a good thing for any photographers who give a shit about the value of their work but don't want to have a banner across any image to prevent it from being halfinched. All those people who've been selling microstock for 0.0000001p per photo are probably shit out of luck too.

[Jaspersharpe]

Fucking scumbags.......

I got a nice letter on posh paper telling me that my MP had raised his constituents concerns with the Digital Minister Stephen Timms and enclosing Mr Timms' reply.

Unfortunately Mr Timms is a cock and it was just a load of party line (Mandy's line) bullshit about copyright etc. Most depressing.

I got the same (but then I'm pretty sure we're both in Richard Caborn's constituency).

Considering writing and pointing out the the DEB will effectively kill open WiFi and that this in turn will stiffle the pledge to get everyone on line (particularly in remote areas).  Will see if I can find the time at some point.

I see our Mr Caborn voted "Aye" as well. Quell surprise. I wonder how many constituents emailed or wrote to their MPs in support of the DEB and asking that it be rushed through without proper debate?

In such circumstances I could never please everyone.

I would be tempted to ask the question but I already know the answer!

Labour have fucked is as far as I'm concerned and as ours is the only constituency in Sheffield where a minor swing will lose them a seat to the Lib Dems perhaps they should have listened......

You're spot on slackers but I'm confident that they're merely swimming against the tide. The legislation is already superseded by technology and ingenuity. It's pathetic really. The bigger issue that this has highlighted is that of the power of money (as Davey_C says)..............

http://www.adoptioncurve.net/archives/2010/04/the-debill-and-why-were-really-screwed.php

There are some decent people in politics but more and more I see that the only ones with the balls to stand up for what they believe in NO MATTER WHAT are in the yellow team. Could it have something to do with the finances of the parties themselves?

dave - was that not the clause 43 that was scrapped at the last minute?

[dave]

dave - was that not the clause 43 that was scrapped at the last minute?

could have been, I'm not going to pretend I'm totally up to date on this shit. That fact it was even in the bill in the first place is staggering.

[Ru]

dave - was that not the clause 43 that was scrapped at the last minute?

could have been, I'm not going to pretend I'm totally up to date on this shit. That fact it was even in the bill in the first place is staggering.

Yeah, that bit got cut a couple of days ago.

[Sloper]

This Bill was always going to be the product of lobbying from likes of David Geffen, just look at how much time he spent with Peter Mandleson etc  for what it's worth I don't think that the problem is the protection of copyright per se it's more the enforcement of alleged breaches and the transfer of responsibility for breaches that this the problem.

I don't see this Bill remaining unammended for long.

[slackline]

The other thing about the DEB from what I gather is it means that basically if someone stumbles across a photo on the internet and it's not immediately obvious who owns the copyright (i.e. the image is deemed to be "orphaned") its basically fair game to be used for free, outside of copyright. Which is clearly not a good thing for any photographers who give a shit about the value of their work but don't want to have a banner across any image to prevent it from being halfinched. All those people who've been selling microstock for 0.0000001p per photo are probably shit out of luck too.

Nope, that got thrown out (see here, cofe tweeted about it the other day when it was announced), the amusing thing is that as a consequence, both the Tories and Labour have broken the law 

[dave]

whats a "tweet"?

[Jaspersharpe]

I don't think that the problem is the protection of copyright per se it's more the enforcement of alleged breaches and the transfer of responsibility for breaches that this the problem.

Which means that anywhere offering free wifi can be prosecuted as an isp which has allowed someone to use their service illegally (or something)? Yeah I'd say that was a pretty big fucking problem. Universities, libraries, pubs, cafes, last I heard the government hadn't even decided how they would be classified so they couldn't give anyone an answer as to what they should do. Great legislation!

Such total nonsense. It's like prosecuting the owner of a road for someone driving illegally on it.

[slackline]

whats a "tweet"?

Its a short message of upto 140 characters (in essence a micro-blog) that you post to an account on a website called twitter.  You can "Follow" other people and see what they are tweeting and others can follow you and see what you tweet.  There are various different interfaces such as a standard web-page, or various Firefox plug-ins, plus apps for smart-phones that allow you to tweet on the go. 

[dave]

Sorry let me try that again:

[facitious]what's a tweet?[/facitious]

 

[slackline]

[playingalong]For once I clocked this as a joke[/playingalong]

[Jaspersharpe]

BBC News - Conservatives outline £12bn public sector savings plan

Whoa! Not filling 20,000 "vacancies" at HMRC? Ha ha! They're already woefully understaffed as it is and barely have enough people to answer the phone.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8586257.stm

Well done David, another brilliant policy.

The only way they can pay for not raising NI is by raising VAT (which they're keeping quiet about).

Do you wonder why "70 business leaders" are backing the NI policy? Yeah, not because it'll make a couple of quid a week difference to the individual but because it will cost the big companies millions in Employers NI. What's 1% to you or me? Fuck all. But to a company employing thousands it's big money.

VAT hits everyone including the poorest. Anyone see a pattern developing?

Don't let these cunts pull the wool over your eyes.

[Jaspersharpe]

See if your vote means anything......

http://www.voterpower.org.uk/

[dave]

I've got 0.635 of a vote. My parents have got 0.007. Sucks to be them.

[slackline]

The architects of the DEB really are fucking clueless as to what they're talking about

In the context of identifying individuals on the internet IP != Intellectual Property.

IP == Internet Protocol

And these are the fuckwits who are making laws about things they don't even understand 

[Drew]

I've got 0.635 of a vote.

Yes but "Voters in Sheffield Hallam have 2.51x more voting power than the UK average". I thought it looked like a fairly safe Lib Dem seat.

[Andy B]

We've got 0.072 of a vote.

That's pretty fucking depressing.

[Stubbs]

David Cameron believes in Zombies
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/f0000552.shtml

[lagerstarfish]

Sex workers in Attercliffe have a vote worth 512 times more than anyone from Scunthorpe?

[Jaspersharpe]

0.901 in Sheffield Central. 24th out of 650.

[slackline]

My brother (who has been excommunicated to Eire) contacted me the other day saying I could have his proxy vote to use as I wish, tempted given how in the balance Sheffield Central is, but it would of course be illegal.

[dave]

My brother (who has been excommunicated to Eire)

That pretty harsh, just cos he didn't spot you.