[SA Chris]

Was idly speculating on this yesterday evening. Doing a couple of new problems last night, and first of all tried something that felt brick hard on first acquaintence, but managed it by the end of the session, and was trying to figure out what is key to success? I know it's often a combination, but what do you reckon is the main factor?

[andy_e]

I've pondered the same thing in times gone by. The hardest things I've done in a single session are Local Hero and Fat Slapper (both at Wimberry). For Local Hero, It was watching r-man do it that gave me the knowledge. For Fat Slapper (is this really 6b+?) It was getting the right moves. For me though, the main reason for not getting hard problems in one sesh is not having any skin left after about five minutes...

(Then again, "Hard Problem" for me is most people on here's "Warm Up Problem"  )

[r-man]

Usually body position for me - especially for short 1-4 move problems. All the other stuff - working out the sequence, using the holds right, getting beta is all part of discovering the problem - if I've done all these and still haven't quite managed, it sometimes takes a while to discover the right movement, and then everything falls into place. Of course, sometimes just trying that little bit harder seems to work - but I always think it's probably more a case of doing the move better. How much harder than can you really try, especially when you tried a little bit harder the previous ten times...?

I think I also find those problems the most satisying - the ones where discovering the sequence is only the beginning, and discovering how to make it work for you is the key...

[Houdini]

I ticked pulling harder.

[moose]

Body position for me I reckon.  I have lost count of the number of problems I have failed on repeatedly when psyched and in perfect conditions, but have inexplicably managed (often been able to path afterwards) in the poorest of cirumstances just because of some fractional change in body attitude / loading.  It often seems to be a case of reminding myself to get up high on holds before launching for the next ones (my tendency to slouch extends even to bouldering).  I suspect it is largely a result of my coming to climbing fairly late in life and then only going indoors for years (and sporadically at that): poor kinaesthetic awareness and use of rock. 

Sequence beta is often a factor though - I was trying Demon Wall Roof for ages with a sequence completely incompatible with my lanky frame until a passing wad pointed out an obvious change.  The result: over a year's effort superceded by a  one hour post-beta session!  The cost of being a solo boulderer (that and highballs often turning into epics and never daring to do dynos).

[fatneck]

I wanted to vote for mental attitude....

I've managed to get a few video's of myself climbing problems at my limit lately and it's interesting to note that on the occassion I do the problem, my body just looks more relaxed/ready/something/I can't/put my/finger on. I don't look like this on failed attempts.

In short, as I pull on, I just look like I'm going to do it. And thinking about how I felt on those occcassions, I felt I was going to do it!

It's all in the mind man...

[SA Chris]

It's a good point, sometimes just going from the point of not believing you can do something to believing you can do it can make a lot of difference. I don't think I can add it as an option now.

[BenF]

I've managed to get a few video's of myself climbing problems at my limit lately and it's interesting to note that on the occassion I do the problem, my body just looks more relaxed

Hmmm...  and why are you usually so "relaxed" when you're out climbing Simon?   

[bigphil]

I would say that it is a combination of sequence and body position, though the latter is slightly less important.

[SA Chris]

I think I also find those problems the most satisying - the ones where discovering the sequence is only the beginning, and discovering how to make it work for you is the key...

I'm with you on that, strength is going, fingers huring, tips are raw, and then you nail it, feels so good.

I'm usually pretty good at figuring out a workable sequence pretty early on, then having to refine it gradually with minor adjustments to body positioning.

[Richie Crouch]

I think when I'm working on something the breakthrough is mainly down to a fractional switching of body position or balance but a lot of it is definitely feeling psyched and ready to do it without being tense or feeling too tired before I even get on with it.

I think the mental/body position combination is/are the main factors for me personally as the sequence and hold usage seem to stay more a less the same once I have worked out how I am going to approach it 

[Blunk]

It's all in the mind man...

It often is, that's for sure. The big problem then becomes how to get it right in your head consistently. Something I have been working on for decades and not really figured out.

My last session was a great example of this, was working on a problem with a two-part crux move, surging up to a poor hold then repositioning to do a long throw off of it. After a bunch of tries I had all the hand and body positioning worked out, was pulling really hard, but still couldn't do it. On the last go I was tired, really had no reason to think I would succeed, but when I put my hands on the initial holds I knew I was gonna do it and just floated the crux. Weird, but it's happened to me hundreds of times like that.

How do you consciously replicate something like that?

[unclesomebody]

There's something to be said for doing hard things quickly. Often if it takes more than 1 session you become embroiled in a psychological battle. You end up thinking about it too much. Sometimes your first several goes are the best, or maybe purest, because there is no headfuck. As long as you have good beta then you can do hard shit fast! Just pull hard... isn't that what it's all about? 

[tim palmer]

I think if you have it in you, you just have to try it try it and try it again and hopefully your movement will refine itself to the point where u do the problem.  This was definately the case for me on berezina at bas cuvier trying it the jumpy way, took me quite a few goes to do the first move then once it did it once it was all over.

[Johnny Brown]

As long as you have good beta then you can do hard shit fast! Just pull hard... isn't that what it's all about? 

Only gets you as far as the mantle though, eh Uncle?

[unclesomebody]

As long as you have good beta then you can do hard shit fast! Just pull hard... isn't that what it's all about? 

Only gets you as far as the mantle though, eh Uncle?

failing on the last move of problems... sucks doesn't it.    Did it first go upon returning...

[Houdini]

So many boxes I would have liked to tick...


I find taking it (your failure, that is) as a deep personal insult to every fibre of your being, to be most helpful in doing things quickly. 

And grimacing, swearing, and going just a little bit crazy/desperate for the ascent (ie climbing the problem as if it may be your last, every time) to be equally useful.



It's essential to develop a good 'flash face', which may or may not be similar to your 'cumming face'.  We all have these, anyone who has been videod trying extremely hard will know what I mean here - you get a 'look' in your eye, the kind of look that, when you witness it in others, you just know they are going to tear it down into submission.  Just don't get your flash and cumming faces confused.

[SA Chris]

It happens because you are concentrating so hard on using every other muscle in your body that you lose control of your face allowing the "beast inside" to momentarily take control of your face, showing the true appearance behind the mask. For some it's the glowing serene face of an angel, for others a howling tormented beast.

I shoulg have put "growling" as a box to tick too, for those moments when a guttral roar escapes your throat, as you have allowed the beast inside momentary control of your vocal chords too. 

[Fiend]

Conditions.

[Houdini]

This thread has just jogged my memory and taken me back to when Nodder suggested that the SDS/stand-up to Repeat After Me would indeed be do-able in one session... 


By Gaskins: but only if we chained him to the problem with enough slack to top out - and a little bowl of cous-cous for energy that, maybe, if we were happy with progress - we would occassionally top-up, till said problem was climbed.

[Nibile]

id say mental attitude, refinement of sequence, and more than anything else, proper resting.
i just cant rest, in the gym or at the boulders. sometimes im shocked by how easy felt a problem after a five minutes rest. im just too sutpid.

reflecting on the argument, in the last year i fell like ive only bouldered in a "single session mentality" even at my home spot. i reckont it deals with the fact that ive traveled alot for bouldering. and so its strange, cos i feel like i havent done anything hard, since ive done alot in single sessions-two sessions, even if i know its not completely true.

btw my project is still beating be. thats not a single session, goddammit. one year session, i say.

[a dense loner]

As long as you have good beta then you can do hard shit fast! Just pull hard... isn't that what it's all about? 

Only gets you as far as the mantle though, eh Uncle?

failing on the last move of problems... sucks doesn't it.    Did it first go upon returning...

[a dense loner]

that wasn't supposed to happen. i was going to say good are the days when we can have forum banter again

[SA Chris]

Conditions.

So conditions are what makes a problem go from impossible to doable in a single session 

Riiiiiight.....