[Ru]

I'm revising some grades for the next Peak guide.

First up: Press Low Left. I've not done this problem so wanted some feedback, 8a or 8a+?

The repeats on 8a.nu indicate that it may be either soft at 8a+ or 8a. I'm not on a massive downgrade mission though and if it's soft 8a+ then it should stay at 8a+. I note that Paul (Smit) has repeated Simpson's link adding in the reverse Kudos traverse and kept Rich's original 8a+ grade for the lot. Seems a bit odd having both in at the same grade, although they could be at opposite ends.

The knock on effect of low left being 8a would be low right being 7c+ and keeling being 7c, or thereabouts.

Tsunami seems to have settled at 7c+, or 8a with the match (which to my mind turns a good independent line into an eliminate, but it will go in anyway). Bigger Splash low right 7c.

Dancing Fish, 8a unless anyone that's done it objects. Bigger Belly 8b? Only a grade harder than Low Left? Johnny G 7c.

Kudos Easy way/ hard way 7b, sitter 7b+.

Thoughts?

[dave]

I would agree there's no real difference between kudos easy/hard these days.

[dobbin]

I think (relative to other things I have done) that Press Low Left is harder than 8a. But I would also accept that perhaps I am doing it a hard way - i.e. I match the sloper, then move right wards into the kneeling start. Concievably, you could bounce off the sloper into the pocket or crimp, swing your heel across, move your left into the sloper and it would then be easier, but I think you are still talking 8a/+. Of course, I havent actually done this, so take with a pinch of salt. I would vote soft 8a+, but still 8a+. The reason you dont get any more for your money if you link it into kudos reverse is because of the massive jug at the top of the press - for someone able to recover and route fit, this presents a veritable bivi ledge (in fact I am suprised not to have found anyone doing a bat hang here) before rumbling leftwards across sharp but positive finger jugs. I agree it seems odd, and is perhaps harsh, but think its hard 8a+ rather than 8b. There is room within the grade I think.

Kneeling is harder than 7c. Or if its not its the hardest 7c in the world. I think kneeling is 7c+, and that low right is either 7c+/8a or soft 8a.

Tsunami I have always found to be one of the hardest. Again, this is because I insist on doing it the slightly elimanate matching on the sloper, no pocket no edge no heelhook method, and to be completely honest, i find this harder than low left press. So definately without a doubt full on 8a that way, and I havent done it the other way, so I cant comment on that.

Dancing fish I think I refer to as flying fish - is this Tsunami to the last move, then left hand go again to the dogs mouth sidepull? i'd agree with 8a, but didnt actually finish it. Bit of a wierd tallist one that.

Bigger belly - dirty living end. Dont know anything other than that it hurts my fingers.

Agreed on the Kudos grades.

[dobbin]

Oh, and can I just remind you that Dan Constance Variable has absolutely no idea how hard things are, couldnt grade flour and shouldnt be trusted. Count Ned into that too.

[dave]

I recon recovering on the press jug (or the kudos starting rail for that matter) just aint in the spirit of kudos wall bouldering. Boo hiss.

Are other obvious linkups like kudos traverse there&back, kudos sitter into traverse etc going in?

[Bonjoy]

Kneeling is harder than 7c. Or if its not its the hardest 7c in the world. I think kneeling is 7c+....

[abarro81]

  too. I think Kudos easy way is only 7a+ but realise I'm in the minority. P.s. is it only me that think Bigger Tail is more like 7a+ than 7a?

[Doylo]

Kneeling Press is 7c+ without question. For me Tsnami hard 7c+ without the eliminate shizzle. I also find Kudos easy way 7b and Kneeling Bigger Splash 7c.

[Andy Harris]

Press low left & Tsunami are polar opposites given they climb within a meter of each other. most find one easier than the other. I find Tsunami much easier as it's more fingery & body tension, whereas press is very burly. I'd say they're probably both 8a.

The link up is worthy of 8a+ as you need to reverse a 7b & then do another 7b.

Kneeling press is deffo 7c+ as this is the hard move. The low right is no harder.

Kneeling or Low right into bigger splash 7c.

Agree with Kudos as hard Kudos is only 7b if you use the intermediates. Sitter worth 7b+

What about original Kudos not using the jug. This is a great 7b+ maybe 7c.

Bigger Belly gotta be 8b and  the stand finish a great 1 move 7c.

Can't comment on the flying fish as not (likely) to do it

[The Sausage]

Kneeling press def 7c+. The press move fits me like a glove (or a flesh tuxedo, depending on your preference), but the finish move is tricky if you're tall. Way harder than (say) the pinch at you know where, which is solid 7c.

Tsunami surely means you match the sloper? I think soft 8a, but it's the only short 8a I've done so can't really comment. I use the heel to go up to the sidepull but change to a toe and deep flag for the move to the undercling. Again, a difficult one to finish.

Low left press I haven't done (yet). However, have been close. Personally I don't think I'm an 8a+ climber, and I know I can do this. So I can't really comment, but I think 8a would be more likely. It doesn't feel as hard as The Thing to me. Or much harder than Tsunami. I'd love it to be 8a+, but I doubt it is. I don't think it's as hard as the In Hell start (just the bit into Rockatrocity), and we can't have softer grades than Wales

[Ru]

Tsunami surely means you match the sloper?

As far as i know Tsunami was never first done as an eliminate, it just became one once an easier sequence (for taller people) became available. Logically I can't see why Tsunami should be converted into an eliminate when most other problems in the Peak just get downgraded when an easier method is found.

[monkey boy]

I reckon...

Kneeling press 7c+
Low right press (slightly harder) 7c+
Low left press (although I haven done it) 8a
Tsunami 8a
Dancing Fish 8a
Bigger Belly 8b
Jonny G 7c (it rhymes)
Kudos easy 7b going on 8a

[Dave Westlake]

Dunno about grades, but on Tsunami, I find matching the sloper the easy bit.  Tall people go again with the right hand to the small pocket, but this seems harder.  The crux is definitely getting the undercut with your left

I think it is the best line on the wall so it would be a shame for it to be an eliminate.

Doing the start of Tsunami then traversing right into bigger splash makes for a good link

[hairich]

kudos easy is 8b

[dobbin]

No, west side story is 8b

[Jaspersharpe]

I've banged this drum before about the inconsistency that had the Low Right start adding a grade to The Press but not to BSD. Doesn't make any sense at all.

BSD kneel = Easy 7C LR = Hard 7C
Press kneel = Easy 7C+ LR = Hard 7C+

Fine. Otherwise both LR starts have to add a grade.

Extrapolate this and you have the grades for the other starts.

Low Left Press = A grade harder than LR so hard 8A
Tsunami (with pocket) = A grade harder than LR so hard 7C+
Tsunami (sloper match) = adds a harder move... 8A

It's universally accepted that there are two versions of Tsunami. Both are good problems, I can't see a problem with both being included?

How about Tsunami being the 8A eliminate version and the non eliminate problem being called Low Left BSD? Or is that too logical?

Kudos Hard Way = 7B
Kudos Sitter = 7B+
Kudos Original = Hard 7B+ (I'd love to take 7C for this but it's not).
Kudos "Easy" = 8C

Oh and Bigger Belly is 8B without a shadow of a doubt.

This all fits then as BB is definitely more than a grade harder than Low Left Press and we can all sleep soundly.

Man I can't wait to get some fucking strength back and get back on these problems.................

[Richie Crouch]

Low left press I haven't done (yet)... I don't think it's as hard as the In Hell start (just the bit into Rockatrocity), and we can't have softer grades than Wales

This is madness, In Hell start is quite steady into the start of RA in comparison to Tsunami/Lower left press start  . Only been on them on a warm day in the sun, so I guess cooler conditions makes things change dramatically?

[Stubbs]

It's probably worth considering Richie that you spend the majority of your climbing time in the cave, and Sausage spends a lot of time on the peak limestone in the summer.

Glad Kudos 'easy' is getting an upgrade!

[dave]

Is there any noise on the thing left of Kudos? I know its been done from standing, but how about a low start? And there seems to be a line just about possible between this and Miller's Tale too.

[Jaspersharpe]

It's supposed to be 7C+ but looks desperate. Who's actually done it? Sequence etc?

[monkey boy]

Yeah it has been done from standing I had heard, although the start crimp has now gone. The sit down is pretty much defunct although opto Varian thinks it will still go!! Someone managed to pull a pocket off and then the main crimp which looked solid managed to collapse under the weight of a northener!

Rock quality is poor maybe its just better left before the whole wall falls down!!!

[saltbeef]

what are people's foot sequences on tsunami for the matching sloper bit? i find the match hideous. (the crux is never getting into that undercut)
kudos easy way is not 7a+ you mentalist albarro. 7b. agree with others.

[Paul B]

what is the easy way, pressing it?

[Jaspersharpe]

Yes, but that's called the hard way.

[monkey boy]

what are people's foot sequences on tsunami for the matching sloper bit? i find the match hideous. (the crux is never getting into that undercut)
kudos easy way is not 7a+ you mentalist albarro. 7b. agree with others.

I use Dobbin's wonderful world of the million foot movements! Others use the drop knee but you gotta have pretty funky knees for that one! Footless perhaps? If conditions are good this is surprisingly easier than it sounds. I also know that some people swing there heel straight up and flag loads with the left leg!

4 methods for you to choose from!