Topic split: Ondra repeats Bon Voyage and grade debate
- Thread starter Wellsy
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What a weapon, I love how he's happy to get stuck in on stuff that's on paper not in his style. Gotta be so much potential for hard trad if Ondra et al turn their sights in that direction, realistically there's just a massive gap between what the best sport climbers and boulderers are doing, and what's being done on trad.
Duncan campbell
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Absolute legend! Once again, Ondra goes and shows how far above everyone else he is!
So so good!
So so good!
thunderbeest
Well-Known Member
remus said:
Isn't trad just too much faffing? Like I said before: most routes in Flatanger could be trad routes, but imaging the amount of time you'd spend cleaning after every fall on Silence. Without bolts it would be impossible to clean I'd imagine.
andy moles
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Possibly the hardest trad-protected route in the world...in 3 days.
:bow: to the O, as always.
:bow: to the O, as always.
shurt
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What a ledge
I love how he isn't afraid to give routes a grade. He's generally very accurate too.
I thought this had been mooted to be 9a+?? From when Steve Mac was there.
At least theres a grade attached to the route now as post TWOL JP was understandably nervous
I love how he isn't afraid to give routes a grade. He's generally very accurate too.
I thought this had been mooted to be 9a+?? From when Steve Mac was there.
At least theres a grade attached to the route now as post TWOL JP was understandably nervous
Now Ondra has climbed the hardest single and multipitch trad. routes in the world as well as the (likely) hardest sport route we're just waiting for the Terranova upgrade for him to complete the set.
About 2 sport grades per E-grade usually? So if the 9a+ was run-out but safe, in the style Bon Voyage appears to be, wouldn't it still be E12 albeit a hard one? If things start become dangerous, rather than just spicy, E-grades rises rapidly but I don't see any proper 9a+ climber interested in operating at that standard with real risk involved. If someone can find Ondra a run-out-but-safe 9b/+ then E13 might well get climbed.
remus said:
About 2 sport grades per E-grade usually? So if the 9a+ was run-out but safe, in the style Bon Voyage appears to be, wouldn't it still be E12 albeit a hard one? If things start become dangerous, rather than just spicy, E-grades rises rapidly but I don't see any proper 9a+ climber interested in operating at that standard with real risk involved. If someone can find Ondra a run-out-but-safe 9b/+ then E13 might well get climbed.
Possibly not the right place for this but should we looking at what the E grade means? 2 sport grades per E grade is 8a E7, 8b E8, 8c E9, 9a E10, 9b E11, 9c E12. It's seems pretty obvious that while Onda didn't by any means find Bon Voyage trivial it took him significantly less effort than climbing 9c.duncan said:
More positively brilliant stuff by Ondra showing up for the challenge and delivering yet again, and great for JP to put his route out there and see it validated as possibly (probably?) the hardest trad route in the world.
teestub
Cyber Wanker
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Hopefully we can all just forget about the ‘E12’ tag, especially considering it’s in France, which made it seem more ridiculous in the first place, and concentrate on the ‘hard 9a’ from Ondra, which is a great endorsement I think.
I wonder whether he found this harder than the crux pitches on Dawn Wall, amazing that there’s someone who gets to compare!
I wonder whether he found this harder than the crux pitches on Dawn Wall, amazing that there’s someone who gets to compare!
kingholmesy
Well-Known Member
I would have thought though that E7 could be anything from maybe 7a to 8aish? Dunno about stuff above that but seems wrong to think it needs to be 9c to justify E12.
I know the E-grader thingy got a lot of stick, but it worked well for the stuff I plugged into it at my lowly level and I reckon the wads promoting it had a point that the progression though the grades should be “linear” - otherwise the E grade for hard stuff will end up broken.
And according to the E grader 9a run out equals E12.
I know the E-grader thingy got a lot of stick, but it worked well for the stuff I plugged into it at my lowly level and I reckon the wads promoting it had a point that the progression though the grades should be “linear” - otherwise the E grade for hard stuff will end up broken.
And according to the E grader 9a run out equals E12.
Obviously it doesn't need to be 9c to be E12 but if the E grade is in some way a useful measure of difficulty (not necessarily true!), then a runout E12 with some danger should be a similar level of difficulty to a totally safe E12. For Ondra one took 3 days while the other took multiple trips and specific training, don't really appear to be the same difficulty.kingholmesy said:
None of this knocks either Ondra's or JP's efforts , if Bon Voyage was E11
and E11 was equivalent in difficulty to 9b/9b+ it would mean JP had produced one of the very top ascents by any British climber and Ondra had completed a world class quick repeat
On the other side maybe higher E grades dont correspond to sport grades in the same way as E4- E8ish and instead become a bit narrower in the higher end, which I guess is fine if a bit confusing.
kingholmesy
Well-Known Member
IanP said:
Er no, for the same reason that a runout E7 with some danger should be about 7a+ and a totally safe E7 should be about 8a. Clearly they’re not the same level of physical difficulty.
Applying the same “width” of sports grades would mean that a runout E12 with some danger should be about 8c+ and a totally safe E12 should be about 9c. Obviously again one of those is physically harder than the other.
Andy F
Ex-ex-climber
That's if those routes are totally safe. If it's a bit pokey, add an E grade, if it's very spicy add two, death add 3. So a spicy, run out 9a would be E12.IanP said:
Brilliant efforts by James and Adam. Proper climbing, proper grades, properly impressive.
Probably my last comment on this since everybody seems to disagree with me (which maybe means I'm wrong). This definition means that it appears to be much easier for for AO to climb a spicy E12 (Bon Voyage) than a bolted E12 (Silence, B.I.G?). Which seems to mean that spicy E12 is significantly less of a challenge i.e. less difficult 'overall' rather than just less difficult physically.Andy F said:
Anyway as said this doesn't matter, Bon Voyage is obviously an awesome effort and JP must be totally made up that Ondra came , put in a proper effort, and repeated it. And despite other climbers competing with him at the top end of repointing etc it seems that Ondra is still pretty much unequivocally the best climber in the world.
