The Ultimate Limestone Multipitch Shoe?

[knollchri]

Following this discussion closely as my stock of Blancos is slowly going towards zero.

Unparallel Up Lace are based on Blancos but with a few tweaks that stop them needing such an aggressive heel.

[...]I concur that they have a very similar fit and feel to Blancos, but I will go for US size 8.5 when I buy another pair as the current pair are slightly too imprecise. In other words, don't assume Blanco and UP Lace sizing is the same.

I really appreciate your insights. Great to hear about your first-hand experience, especially since they are unavailable in local shops. Your comments are reassuring though, and I might just give them a try.

 

[moose]

As mentioned the Blancos are a good option but for me Sportiva Katakis are the best all round multi pitch route I’ve ever worn. Now discontinued but several places still selling them off. Down to £59 at Outside but only small sizes left

Katakis strike me as a good pick. I took a 3 year hiatus from routes and in January went sport climbing in Spain and the only shoes I could wear for any time were the Katakis I took as a secondary option. For me, (and possibly irrespective of what Sportiva say), they are flatter, slightly stiffer, and less aggressive than the various Miuras and Katanas and far friendlier for extended use. Still precise though - you can focus the big toe on small footholds and smear well, but maybe can't quite claw back on steep ground like when wearing Solutions etc. The heel is that "S-heel" nonsense though, which I find bulbous and insensitive.

 

[Duncan campbell]

Otakis are my go to shoe. Have found them to be good for very edging and have done big sport stuff in taghia up to rivières pourpres which is 7b ish.

I think they are the dogs bollocks for most things tbh. (Shark please don’t start wearing them as you seem to have a curse on you regarding discontinuing shoes)

 

[SamT]

I've been on a quest for this kind of thing, (though more for multipitch stuff in the lakes/wales). I'm sure various pairs of re-soled red instict laces are still up to it, but been hoping to find a new alternative.

Got a pair of Scarpa Maestro, and initially thought they felt like a pair of clogs, but I've hardly worn them, (been a bit of a shit summer for me in terms of climbing).

 

[submaximal gains]

I got Scarpa Boostics one size up from my normal size for long routes and found they were really good for 8-10 pitch routes on limestone and granite, I've not done anything longer in them yet. Before them I'd have used scarpa VSRs but thought they were too soft to spend all day in.

Both Peter Croft and Josh Wharton like the Boostics for long routes https://mojagear.com/whats-in-your-pack-peter-croft/

They are also vegan in case that's a deciding factor for anyone

 

[Fultonius]

I used to love the boostics for long routes on edgey rock, but the new version just doesn't do it for me!

In fact, it's almost as if they stopped the misdole a tiny bit short of the big toe for "sensitivity" which just makes them shit on small edges. They feel plusher, but actually, on a long route they don't work for me.

 

[Paul B]

Otakis are my go to shoe. Have found them to be good for very edging and have done big sport stuff in taghia up to rivières pourpres which is 7b ish.

I think they are the dogs bollocks for most things tbh. (Shark please don’t start wearing them as you seem to have a curse on you regarding discontinuing shoes)

I couldn't keep up with all the new shoes on the market (Sportiva and Scarpa seemed to be throwing loads of new models out) but I think I tried a pair of the women's Skwama and found them fairly comparable to the VSR in terms of performance but at a higher price point and a lot less comfortable with the single strap design.

 

[cowboyhat]

Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.

I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!

Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.

My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.

Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.

I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.

Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?

 

[jwi]

I use Skwama for anything steep now, but I am still a believer in Miura for the vert or of-vert.

 

[Paul B]

I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.

I've heard the same about the VSR (I've not tried the F specific VSR); I think it's likely only an issue if you're heavier? Mine seem plenty stiff enough.

 

[SA Chris]

I couldn't keep up with all the new shoes on the market

It's a bit crazy isn't it. 40 or so years since only real choice of 1 - Boreal Fire.

 

[petejh]

Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.

I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!

Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.

My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.

Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.

I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.

Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?

Same situation, one pair of unused whites remaining. They've been my favorite shoe for about the last 12 years.. might just retire from climbing once they're done :'(

 

[Paul B]

I've got a box fresh* pair in 7.5 that I may be persuaded to part with for the right money :worms:

I'd thought I was saving them for something but as I got more and more familiar with the VSRs I didn't find the need.

*the box may or may not have been lightly chewed by rodents

 

[petejh]

Mine are 8s and 8.5s unfortunately.

Roll on 3D-printing shoe-making. How hard can it be?

 

[slab_happy]

Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.

I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!

Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.

My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.

Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.

I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.

Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?

As I understand it, the XX are basically just Miura Laces with the addition of the P3 insert from the Miura Velcros, which is why they hold their downturn instead of flattening out.

The Katana Laces also have the P3, but are a bit less asymmetrical. So if they don't work out, and you're not wedded to lace-ups, try the Miura Velcros.

 

[Liamhutch89]

I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.

 

[petejh]

I think that's a valid point, calf endurance training (and big toe strength/endurance) probably always going to be useful in climbing. I appreciate the extra stiffness of whites since surgery left me with a slightly damaged sciatic nerve, which means the calf muscles in my right leg tire and cramp a bit prematurely.. a more supportive shoe helps there.

 

[MischaHY]

I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.

This is basically exactly why I'm looking for a semi-stiff shoe actually. I spent a season climbing in totally soft shoes and my feet got a LOT stronger. It was a revelation and since then I can't bear the drop in performance on super stiff insensitive shoes. That being said on very techy vert lime shoes like the instinct lace just roll off the edges unless they're brand new so something stiffer but still sensitive like Miura VS is better. Maybe the Katana Lace is the right direction.

 

[Andy F]

The Scarpa Boostic may fit the bill. Stiff and sensitive, you don't need to downsize massively and hold the edge well.

 

[spidermonkey09]

This is basically exactly why I'm looking for a semi-stiff shoe actually. I spent a season climbing in totally soft shoes and my feet got a LOT stronger. It was a revelation and since then I can't bear the drop in performance on super stiff insensitive shoes. That being said on very techy vert lime shoes like the instinct lace just roll off the edges unless they're brand new so something stiffer but still sensitive like Miura VS is better. Maybe the Katana Lace is the right direction.

No diss, but I think you must be very dialled in to precisely how each foothold feels to experience this. A lot of people in the UK wear Instinct Lace for vert lime and they manifestly do not roll off edges.

Is it possible you're overthinking it a bit? Is there really *that* much of a difference between Katana's and Miuras? Genuine question, as I just find the number of options out there to be a bit silly when for me personally there seems very little difference between a lot of them, other than the obvious really soft to stiff metrics. I guess it might also be the inner nerd that lives in most climbers that likes to obsess over technical details like cam holding strength etc, which I do as well!