The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates

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I'm also with Franco regarding Will, Dan, Ned's ascents, regarding the pocket and move out R.

This makes Andy's FA something of an eliminate, which is unsatisfactory, but that's how it goes.
I think there's more difficulty in working out what to do with these three ascents than Franco's.
 
Climbing the obvious big prow as far as possible is hardly an eliminate. Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.
 
Johnny Brown said:
Andy F said:
Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.

I've not got it in for anyone, but I strongly dislike it when people claim things they haven't done, falsely claim things they have done and give over inflated grades with little backing. I call it as I see it. If you, or others don't like honesty, then frankly I don't give a shit about your opinion.

FFS I know you've got it in for Franco but what utter tripe.
 
That is all irrelevant to your statement. The literal definition of an eliminate is avoiding holds to make it harder. It has never been the reverse. That I have to spell that out is pretty bizarre.
 
Andy F said:
Climbing the obvious big prow as far as possible is hardly an eliminate. Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.

So cenotaph corner is an eliminate because it avoids the hard climbing on nightmayer? You really do seem to have got that completely the wrong way round.

I don't know the history of you issue with franco, but it seems like your contributions are pretty much invalid, such is the extent of your bias against him.
 
Andy F said:
Climbing the obvious big prow as far as possible is hardly an eliminate. Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.

If you have three handholds ahead of you, and you use the sequence left left right, because that's easier than right left right, you have avoided difficulty, but that does not equate to an eliminate.
 
Andy F said:
Climbing the obvious big prow as far as possible is hardly an eliminate. Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.

I get what you're trying to say Andy, but even in the vid of Dan, there's the moment he eye's the pocket out right, with Will making the move R first.

What you're addressing head on, is the difference between what's reported and claimed as The Prow, and what Andy did - and that's important. It's absolutely no slight on Andy, to say that unfortunately the main challenge of The Prow proper is somewhat contrived. It's a testament to him that he did it that way.

I don't like the way that things get "socially revised" after the fact, as though 20+ pads, an army of spotters, but "ground up" .. plus a bit of Czech style combined tactics instead of a ladder, means that other differences can get ignored.

Maybe the best bit to come out of this for me, is having watched the rest of the video about Andy.

Well done to his family and friends for being so open about their new challenges :thumbsup:
 
Ged said:
Andy F said:
Climbing the obvious big prow as far as possible is hardly an eliminate. Avoiding the difficulties is an eliminate.

So cenotaph corner is an eliminate because it avoids the hard climbing on nightmayer? You really do seem to have got that completely the wrong way round.

I don't know the history of you issue with franco, but it seems like your contributions are pretty much invalid, such is the extent of your bias against him.

Cenotaph and Nightmayer are different lines, so not the best example you could have used. I have no issue with Franco, I just happen to dislike false claims.
 
Just left of cenotaph corner is Left Wall.

I'm interested to know which variation of that is the eliminate. Direct and hard or escaping out left to easy ground.
 
Though that does misrepresent the point that Andy is trying to make.

I wouldn't refer to any of this as being about making false claims though either.
There's been no act of deception, but if there's one common feature of social media, it's the redefining of things to suit the applause.
What gets applauded is true.

Except it isn't.

Unfortunately, the "one true line" in this case isn't quite that either.
 
Doylo said:
Climbing the vert wall to the right of the steep overhang likely isn’t the same grade.

[quote author=Franco on UKC]

FWIW I suspect my sequence and the original one are the same/similar Trad grades. Both pretty safe and pretty hard, but made significantly easier with modern padding.
[/quote]

As the height and landing are the same, this would suggest Franco thinks the climbing difficulty (i.e. Font 7C+/8A) is similar too.
 
In Doyle's style:

From where they diverge neither sequence eliminates any holds. They are not eliminates.

Climbing a wall is not climbing a prow.

Franco was clear about his sequence but headline/title was potentially misleading.

Francos achievement is impressive.

His willingness to discuss it on here should be applauded.
 

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