simpson vanishes...

[Doylo]

No i wasn't.

 

[dave]

... but I think people should be given the beneifit of the doubt unless there is evidence that they are lying.

What kind of evidence would that be? How do you suggest people prove that something didn't happen?

As a little excersise, i haven't done caviar. Now can you prove it?

 

[clm]

the results of pretty much every athletics meet are published in athletics weekly. If they bothered to publish my pissy efforts when my skinny 14 year old legs used to scurry round a track :spank: then im sure good times like that would be in. Proper timekeepers and everything to be in there.
...and if it wasnt in a race it doesnt count.

 

[roddersm]

... but I think people should be given the beneifit of the doubt unless there is evidence that they are lying.

What kind of evidence would that be? How do you suggest people prove that something didn't happen?

As a little excersise, i haven't done caviar. Now can you prove it?

Fair question. From my point of view Simpson has proved himself to be capable of doing the things he's said so there's no logical reason to doubt him that I can see. This can be seen in the videos floating around about him. The Si Connor thing seems different because no one had seen the guy climb. Simpson was based in Sheffield for a while, surely there are loads of people who've seen him climb something?

If people started coming out and saying they have seen him struggle on routes or boulders way easier than he's claimed to have done then I'd see this as evidence that MIGHT suggest he is lying. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest he's a liar other than a lack of evidence to support his claims, however many climbers are credited with doing things with little or no evidence.

If someone shows themselves to be capable of doing something and then claim do have done it then they should at least be given the benefit of the doubt unless theres some evidence otherwise e.g. he was spotted in tescos in birmingham the morning he was supposed to have done AD or a muerte. Otherwise does this mean no acsents can be valid without video evidence?

CLM: Agree on the Athletics results thing, it is very odd that he doesn't show up on any race results. He did state his boxing club somewhere though, surely it would be very easy to check out if he was lying about his boxing achievements?

 

[fiveknuckle21]

For what it's worth I think his ability to climb 8B in the school is undoubtebly transferrable to routes like AD which is also very steep. If the moves are 7B/+ I'm sure he found it a walk in the park.

I think Obsession, above anything else, shows how RS was motivated and the way in which he speaks throughout firmly represents how personal a goal it was. His choice to go out and redpoint the old school 8c's rather than the new school 9a's shows that he had his own direction away from the bright lights of 9a and beyond. It's also important to remember that not everyone has an in-situ camera team like Sharma/Ondra.

I don't know about you but I find it a real shame that people are so quick to defame other climbers on the basis of 'what they've heard from people in the know (or their mates)'. I mean come on. This isn't Scott or Si'O. I really think RS is a decent role model for younger climbers and maybe for their sakes the seeds of doubt needn't be planted because there's enough evidence to show that he was at least capable of his achievements.

Whether or not he's done the 4 minute mile and all that, I dunno, who cares, this is a climbing forum.

 

[Paul B]

Yes, there is much video evidence that Rich could do some awesome stuff in the School, but little un-edited evidence of him doing anything exceptional on rock.

The thing is, the one place where I found board strength translating best was the Frankenjura. You cite little un-edited video evidence but watch Obsession again and see how easily he walks up Nightmare. From what Doylo said, that day it was boiling. You don't climb on Eldorado in full sun especially on a move where you jump into that pinch and swing around. Its hard enough as it is.

Now I'm expecting a backlash here saying "Well thats only F8b and we're talking 9a" etc. but it clearly shows someone on rock, climbing well below their ability, on an 8b, in the Frankenjura. If you take a look at this 'jura ticklist it reads like a role call of routes that suit his apparent strengths (Intercooler, armstrong etc. one of which basically involves one arming a mono). Add to that you've got a video of him demonstrating large links on AD, its not cut together from one move segments.

Seriously go and pull onto or look at AD and come back saying you could make that video (its the funniest thing I've read in a while). You simply wouldn't be able to. To me it highlights a lack of direct knowledge of the routes in question.

But then again maybe I've been duped, or I'm just a Schoolroom/Simposn fanboi...

 

[nik at work]

I don't Richard Simpson at all but on the basis of the film I'm left in no doubt that he could have done AD, and I have no reason to think he didn't. Equally, extrapolating from this point, I have no reason to dooubt his other sport/bouldering exploits.
The Zone is a bit weird for a few reasons. I'm sure I remember it was only obliquely refered to and the reason behind no "formal claiming" of the ascent was due to lack of witnesses. Which doesn't exactly sit squarely with the apparent lack of witnesses for other ascents which he (or his sponsors) has happily publicised. But I might not be remembering things clearly so could be confused. Anyway I'm sure he has the ability to do The Zone. Onsight? Quite possibly, I can't comment on his trad pedigree as I don't know it but on balance I'd say I thiknk he's done it.
The running and boxing stuff seems to have caught him out. Either there's something else going on or he's apparently got a bit silly. But I don't know enough about these activities and their recording to comment.
The mountaineering stuff is also a sphere of very limited knowledge for me. I'd tend to believe but as I'm already considered the hopelessly naive sap of the forum it probably counts for little.

 

[Doylo]

Maybe every single one one of the 11-14 moves on action (depending on how you do it) are font 7b. probably still wouldn't be 9a though would it, its not that long. Hopefully Percy will confirm when he gets on the sections. I might start a whip round to pay for his trip, can i film?

 

[Stubbs]

Chris, did you have to go home before Rich did Action Direct, or were you just having a lie in and he slipped out and sent?

 

[Doylo]

Your spot on i was in bed as he was out the house at 7. I can't say i've seen him do something hard cos i haven't but i didn't climb with him that much when he was fully going for it. On what i saw he could do the route without question, i know this doesn't mean he did it but i struggle with the concept that someone would train in a tiny garage twice a day, six days a week for two years to then go and lie about it. Obviously its possible but i don't buy it. In terms of power he was was of the strongest people i've seen (including Ty, Malc, Micky). He didn't have the greatest crimp strength in the world but in terms of power and the specialist pocket stuff he was world class. He wasn't the most talented climber i've seen either but he moved efficiently and knew his body and how to postion it. When he first tried Unplugged, another lesser known Frankenjura 9a Keith was belaying and after 5 minutes on it they were both convinced that they were on the 8a+ at the crag. Marcus Bock had to confirm it was the right route, it took him 3 days i think (this is a route that dave graham failed on and Ondra even had a tussle with, check his scorecard). Aparently it was like two school 8as in a row (so no surprise he pissed it). I don't know much about the athletics apart from the fact that the New York marathon was oversubscribed and that Ivan Greene (new york socialite) got him someone else's place, hence not showing up on results. I did the same thing at the Great North Run when i was 16. People are doubting that he even boxed , Alex Messenger has pictures of him fighting. Simpson is now at Cambridge University (which is probably why he's too busy to even contemplate this shite), he got straight A's in his A levels which he taught himself after leaving school with very little qualifications This is a pretty motivated guy we're talking about here. I know in this day and age that people expect hard proof and it is naive to expect everyone to belive you on face value but i've met liars before and i don't believe he is one of them.

 

[camear]

I've been reading this thread for ages and that is the first vaguely informative post I have read.

I can't lie, I don't know anything about the guy and have no reason to doubt his word,
but I'm sure everyone would agree that it all stacks up in a pretty unfavourable way for him.

The New York marathon info is interesting...

I guess I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, just a thanks for trying to clear up a point really.

 

[Stubbs]

Thanks Chris

 

[sberk4]

His choice to go out and redpoint the old school 8c's rather than the new school 9a's shows that he had his own direction away from the bright lights of 9a and beyond.

I agree with five knuckle; If Simpson was lying about his achievements, why would he go out and redpoint all those "hard for the grade" routes instead of trying ones with more inflation? For example when he did A Muerte he called it 8c+/9a instead of just taking 9a, which I doubt anyone would have questioned (http://usa.moonclimbing.com/rich-simpsons-training-diary-c-334_358.html).

Also--it looks like there's full footage of him doing Action on the Obsession video starting around minute 23. What am I missing?

 

[Nibile]

wow, this is both shocking and interesting to read.
I really don't know what to think. it's strange that he's surrounded by mystery, I remember another thread years ago, causing a big stir. IIRC Rich said he had evidence of all his ascents, but wanted to be asked to show that evidence by those who actually doubted him. simply put, he wanted to know the enemy. fair enough I think. I have always believed his achievements. he had the level.
the only reason that I can imagine, for him to lie, is that somehow the pressure got too high to bear, mentally. I mean, if you devote all your life to something, it could be hard to keep the necessary calm and cold blood to keep yourself at it, in front of some difficulties. BUT I HAVE NO IDEA.
as said, I've always believed him.
I know how I think (barely) but I am not in his (or anyone else's) mind.
should be quite easy, though, to track down his belayer, for those who want sure proof. I mean, AD and A muerte don't get climbed everyday no?

 

[Sloper]

I think all boxers need to be registered with the ABAE and I would be very suprised if there weren't recrods of every bout if only for health and safety reasons (plus I imagine the ranking is as competitive as chess). So it should be very easy to prove his boxing pedigree. (I would rather show my card as having got belted around the ring and admit to being a little loose with the facts than have just been on a walter mitty trip.

Similarly with the New York Marathon. sub 2:30 would probably mean what 50 competitors most of whom will be very much darker than Mr Simpson and I am sure the finish of the race will be on you tube somewhere. Again a doddle for Mr S to prove his athletics pedigree.

If he could nail his colours to the mast and demonstrate that he's straight here then it would give people a good reason to afford credit to his other claims.

PS I wonder if the climber in question wasn't well known how their claims would be viewed. I am afraid that having been on the side affording credence I am now with Shark and thinking that the case for the prosecution as it were has enough behind it to go past half time and unless there's some strong evidence for the defence as it were the jury won't be out for long.

Interstingly though I seem to recall Ben Heason doing one of the Wimberry horror shows on video, perhaps it's time the tables were turned . . .

 

[Kingy]

I know Rich from my Birmingham days and he has held my ropes on Mecca. I believe all his ascents without the need to ask about proof, call me naive but maybe this is from an earlier era of trust in a climber's ability. I don't question his integrity as I know how strong he was/is. I seem to remember he was going out on the grit a few years back and deliberately not telling the press about routes he had done like Careless just because he was disillusioned with the climbing media, understandable perhaps! I think the Moon site said that he had gone all 'shy' or something at the time...fair enough.

 

[katy]

Similarly with the New York Marathon. sub 2:30 would probably mean what 50 competitors most of whom will be very much darker than Mr Simpson and I am sure the finish of the race will be on you tube somewhere. Again a doddle for Mr S to prove his athletics pedigree.

Most runs are split into the pro's, club and then fun runners with the fun runners being split on PBs. Getting through the gates can take forever though. (look how long people take to start the London marathon, getting through the gates is epic, and they have two starts) If Rich was running under someone else's name then he would be under their PB and starting with fun runners instead maybe his watch timing for his run was 2.30 but the recorded time, with heavy traffic is slower? I doubt he would find a place under the pro's or club runners in a pseudonym, people would recognise he wasn't who he said he was. he'd be in the fun runners.

 

[SA Chris]

As it appears to be the basis for this thread and the (quite frankly, sordid) speculation, does anyone know that he has been dropped by his sponsors or if they have actually agreed to part ways due to him studying full time for at least 3 years?

 

[Percy B]

My last post on this thread - its all based on pure conjecture and will no doubt rumble on for a while yet, but I'm out.

I can't say i've seen him do something hard cos i haven't

And nor have I. And nor have a lot of other people. I don't doubt Rich is/was a training monster and was more than capable of climbing AD, and all the other routes he claims. The point is that no-one has actually seen him dispatch any of these routes, or if they have they have been sworn to a vow of secrecy that remains unbroken to this day. If Rich is as bright as his A-levels and Oxbridge studies would suggest, he might like to show somebody (eg: his sponsors) some or all of the evidence that he has been keeping to himself and restore a little confidence in the achievements which put him right up there as one of British climbers best.

Unfortunately climbing is a frustrating sport, and often it is possible to be fit and strong enough to do a climb but for it to take a long time to happen (witness the multi-year redpoint seiges of many of the great and good - Ben Moon on Northern Lights is one that stands out). Now if Ben had told everyone he'd done Northern Lights out of frustration at being more than strong enough but just not quite finishing it off, there might have been little doubt given his previous pedigree.
Is it not possible that Rich might have done this on more than one occasion, and relied on his form in the school to back up his claims (as opposed to producing a climbing buddy to back him up)?

 

[Percy B]

As it appears to be the basis for this thread and the (quite frankly, sordid) speculation, does anyone know that he has been dropped by his sponsors or if they have actually agreed to part ways due to him studying full time for at least 3 years?

Bloody hell - this really is my last post. One quick phone call informs me that RS has been dropped by one sponsor and he has resigned from his other sponsorship contracts (before they binned him too one would think). He didn't produce the proof that they wanted to validate his ascents. His recent blog posts had ascents on them that a lot of people found hard to believe (these blogs have all now been removed unfortunately) but included achievements such as rope-soloing the Brandler-Hasse in the Dolomites in well under 2 hours. I think Alex Huber took 4 hours 20 minutes to free solo this route - unsuprising as it is one of the loosest 16 pitch complex limestone E5's you will find anywhere. Imagine doing it in less than half the time and having the faff of a rope. Needs a bit of backing up, a claim like that.
Hope this helps - I really am out now.