Rock climbing link to Dupuytren's disease

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Johnny Brown said:
Bonnos, give us the lowdown on this. A lump has appeared on my right hand these last weeks and its in the same place as yours...
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That link you sited is very good and there's not much info I could add. Reading it I learned some new thing, like people with DC might be well advised to avoid/stop taking Glucosamine and/or Chondroitin and the potential link with Insulin Deficiency - http://www.dupuytrens-a-new-theory.com/pages/1/index.htm
It sounds like radiotherapy might be a good option for early stage DC (mine's probably too far gone now). I'd look into it further if I was you. Don't expect to be able to get it for free or in the UK though. Sound's like Germany or Austria is the best bet. If it suceeded in stopping it dead it would be worth any associated risk IMO.
For my money if/when contracture becomes a problem I will go down the line of Needle Aponeurosis(sp?). Again I will proabably have to fund this myself and go to Paris to have it done.
 
GCW said:
As far as I was aware, there ha never been a good quality study showing a link. I have looked before but never found anything appropriate. I'll have to have a proper look on PubMed when I get the chance.

All about myofibroblasts.
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I don't need a scientific study to tell me what I can see clearly for myself. The number of long time climbers coming out of the woodwork with early onset DC is enough to convince me that climbing is the trigger.
 
Bonjoy said:
For my money if/when contracture becomes a problem I will go down the line of Needle Aponeurosis.
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This is essentially a closed method of Dupuytren's Fasciotomy. Works OK in early stages for contracture release but recurrence of contracture is 100%. But, it's a minimally invasive method. Some say there is a high risk of neurovascular injury (numb finger, worse case amputation) but in experiences hands this shouldn't be too high.

EDIT to add reply to Bonjoy:
Bonjoy said:
I don't need a scientific study to tell me what I can see clearly for myself. The number of long time climbers coming out of the woodwork with early onset DC is enough to convince me that climbing is the trigger.
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Fair enough, but this is SCIENCE and not hearsay. It may well be a cause, but very big, high quality studies that showed no increase incidence in recurent palmar trauma. That doesn't mean it doesn't have an input, just that no-one has demonstrated it properly.
 
Oh right, I'm to suspend judgement until SCIENCE replicates the patently obvious? What are the odds of a big study into a climbing link to DC? In the meantime I'll draw my own conclusions.
I would have said it's highly plausible/likely that the repetitive trauma/pressures created by climbing intensively would be very individual to climbing and therefore the study you mention would prove/disprove nothing in relation to it.
 
You know that's not what I'm saying. I expect there will be a link between climbing and DC.
Another point, you would think it would be the lower level climbers who go out regularly (blindingly obvious) not the high level climbers who tend to crimp more (crimping causes less palmar fascia trauma that jug pulling). Views on that?

My Gran smoked 100 fags a day and she lived til she was ......... blah
 
No, i'd think the opposite, the micro traumas being a result of more strain through less tissue rather than big holds jabbing into palms. Besides I never postulated that it was palmar fascia trauma caused by climbing that caused the predisposition to DC, it could be some other climbing related factor for all I know, such as increased normal growth in the area, or an increase in some metabolic substance in the area caused by the type of hand use.
 
I think this is more likely. We know it's myofibroblast related, and as I said above direct trauma hasn't been shown to cause it. Dupuytren's is far more complex and much less well understood than many think. For example, fingers involved. Generally it's mostly ring and little, is this different in climbers?
 
Yes they tend to be the first affected, which is why i'm not quick to jump to the conclusion that trauma is the initial stimulus, as these fingers are not exceptionally more likely to be injured than others. I see a relationship between climbing and DC, but I'm not suggesting it's as simple as climbing related trauma = DC.
One possibility may be that small undetectable disease events occur in the hands of susceptible individuals at this location, but if unaggrevated pass without progressing to anything physically apparent, however due to climbers regularly stressing the area the likelyhood of one such event progressing and snowballing into DC is greatly increased. The fact that early radiotherapy has good results (ie remove one small nodule and sometime the condition is stopped for good) would suggest that the presence of DC affected tissue leads to more areas becoming affected.
Enough dancing on this pinhead. You know and I both understand this as little as the next man and only marginally less than the experts.
 
Don't sweat it BonJoy- even the experts ain't that expert on the field. But there's a lot of good research going on at the moment.

Bottom line? If you want treatment see a hand surgeon.

My original point was that the study quoted isn't of high quality and adds little to what we assume anyway. I need to post more clearly. :guilty:
 
Just ran a quick SCIENTIFIC study on the contacts in my mobile that I know have DC. Of the climbers 18.9% had DC (7 out of 37), as compared to 0% for the none climbers (0 out of 50 approx). Obviously not the most rigorous of studies but enough to convince me of a link
 
Gotta love SCIENCE!!
So 18.9% compared to population mean of 5 to 25% depending on country (generally 5-15% of over 60s). This is obviously a non-age/ gender etc matched grouping you have. I assume they are young so I agree there's summat goin on.

I don't suppose you did a survey of how many and which fingers were involved? Family history? Laterlity? I'm not taking the piss, I'm genuinely interested. Oddly I was thinking about this earier this year. :-\
 
Cheers BJ. As you mentioned, I think nipping it in the bud will be worth some risk

For example, fingers involved. Generally it's mostly ring and little, is this different in climbers?
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To the idle thinker, these aren't obviously the most stressed fingers in climbing. However I reckon 90% of those who pop a tendon do it on the A2 of the ring finger. I think this is also the tendon most commonly affected in Dupuytrens.
 
Strange this should appear on here today as I was at the Jorvik Centre in York at the weekend reading about how it was indicative of Viking ancestry (passed down through the mothers lineage) which is good news as I've always thought I was Welsh. I've got one on my right hand, I'm 37 yrs old, been climbing 20 years and enjoy going out and quite nights in with a bottle of wine. Oops, wrong site!
 
Have any of you fine freaky fellows affected by Dupuytren's disease been playing around on the rings? Particularly doing false grips work like muscle ups? I have a strong feeling mine was caused by still rings exercises. Currently it is only ever exacerbated by jug pulling types of climbing (usually indoor).
 
Teaboy said:
Strange this should appear on here today as I was at the Jorvik Centre in York at the weekend reading about how it was indicative of Viking ancestry (passed down through the mothers lineage) which is good news as I've always thought I was Welsh.
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Mine is on my right hand, although i am (predominantly left handed). My family tree roots, however, disappear in Eastern Europe somewhere, so there is a vague possibility of Viking links.
 
Ah, that explains my strong Nordic 'look'. Saw Dense last night, he has it too, the lumps I mean not the 'look'. Does that alter your phone stats Bonnos.
 
I wonder if locality (ie rock type you usually climb on) affects risk. If we assume direct PF injury is contributory (which it may not be), sloper shufflers may be at higher risk, whereas crimpers' risk may be lower.
What about warm up/ down/ stretching routines? Does a good palmar massage and warm-down stretch post-climb reduce your risk?
Does taking NSAIDs peri-climb affect it?
Do top end climbers drink more alcohol (which has been partially implicated)?
Is there a greater genetic input in climbers?

As we said before, I'd love to look at this properly but with the incidence as it is you'd need a large sample size of high level climbers to assess all these variables. Shame really, it's a fascinating subject and the mechanism(s) would be interesting stuff.

I'm coming to the conclusion that SCIENCE is losing out to common sense on this one. :eek:
 

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